Oswald's Escape Route Time Trial

[Duncan MacRae]

[Jarrett Smith]

Yes, it's possible and Oswald did kill Tippit.

[Fergus O'brien]

This video has Oswald starting his walk at 1pm . As far as i remember Mack did not mention .when Mrs Roberts said he arrived and when he left and that she said he was stood outside the bus stop for a time .a si recall he made no mention that its noted in interrogation notes that oswald changed his shirt and slacks and placed the dirty clothes in the drawer . where later an inventory lists such clothing being removed by the authorities .the thing has always been to give oswald more time , the commission did it with the time trials they conducted . and the late mr mack was less than honest at times in his approach to this case and such things as timing .

even very well researched LN here have admitted that the shooting happened atleast 3 minutes before the radio call was made on tippits radio . bowley said when he arrived tippit was already down , he said the time on his watch was about 1.10 .we have to allow for old watches potentially being slightly slow or fast time wise . but it seems likely tippit was shot between 1.10 and 1.13 if we accept what bowley said and what the above mentioned LN agreed .

there were two routes in the above video , one took 16 minutes plus , that was the official route .even starting oswald walking at 1pm mack could not get him there in time .so he was forced to try a shorter route that i dont believe there is much evidence for . that still took 12 minutes plus , that still was very tight time wise .of course we cant state to within seconds what time oswald did this or that . so all we can do is look at all the evidence before us and see what it tells us .

[Bill Brown]

The Secret Service and the FBI reconstructed Oswald's steps (with the help of Cecil McWatters and William Whaley) in an attempt to determine the absolute earliest that Oswald could have reached the rooming house.

Based on McWatters' statement of where it was that Oswald boarded the bus (we know Oswald boarded that bus because he had McWatters' specific bus transfer and McWatters said he issued that transfer to only one woman and only one man), Oswald walked about seven blocks east (into the downtown area) after he left the Depository within three minutes of the shooting.

"So I gave her a transfer and opened the door and she was going out the gentleman I had picked up about two blocks (back) asked for a transfer and got off at the same place in the middle of the block where the lady did.  It was the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street." -- Cecil McWatters

They concluded, based on what McWatters told them (along with the Secret Service agents and FBI agents walking the route in an average time of six and a half minutes), that Oswald boarded the bus around 12:40 near the intersection of Field St. and Elm St. and then, after being on the bus for no more than four minutes, Oswald got off the bus near Lamar St. and Elm St. (asking for the transfer as he got off the bus).

So now we have Oswald leaving the bus around 12:44.

Oswald then walked three to four short blocks to the Greyhound station where he boarded Whaley's cab.  This has Oswald entering the cab around 12:48.

They then, with Whaley, reconstructed the cab ride from the Greyhound to the intersection of Beckley and Neely (Oswald got out of the cab on Beckley just north of the intersection with Neely).  They concluded (using a stopwatch) that the cab ride took five minutes and thirty seconds.

So now we have Oswald exiting Whaley's cab on Beckley at 12:53-12:54.

Still using the stopwatch, they concluded that it was a five minute and forty-five second walk from the point Oswald exited the cab back to the rooming house.

I think Oswald got to the rooming house between 12:58 and 1:00 and was back in his room just long enough to grab a jacket before hurrying out the door, zipping up a jacket as he went out the door.

[Martin Weidmann]

The Secret Service and the FBI reconstructed Oswald's steps (with the help of Cecil McWatters and William Whaley) in an attempt to determine the absolute earliest that Oswald could have reached the rooming house.

Based on McWatters' statement of where it was that Oswald boarded the bus (we know Oswald boarded that bus because he had McWatters' specific bus transfer and McWatters said he issued that transfer to only one woman and only one man), Oswald walked about seven blocks east (into the downtown area) after he left the Depository within three minutes of the shooting.

"So I gave her a transfer and opened the door and she was going out the gentleman I had picked up about two blocks (back) asked for a transfer and got off at the same place in the middle of the block where the lady did.  It was the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street." -- Cecil McWatters

They concluded, based on what McWatters told them (along with the Secret Service agents and FBI agents walking the route in an average time of six and a half minutes), that Oswald boarded the bus around 12:40 near the intersection of Field St. and Elm St. and then, after being on the bus for no more than four minutes, Oswald got off the bus near Lamar St. and Elm St. (asking for the transfer as he got off the bus).

So now we have Oswald leaving the bus around 12:44.

Oswald then walked three to four short blocks to the Greyhound station where he boarded Whaley's cab.  This has Oswald entering the cab around 12:48.

They then, with Whaley, reconstructed the cab ride from the Greyhound to the intersection of Beckley and Neely (Oswald got out of the cab on Beckley just north of the intersection with Neely).  They concluded (using a stopwatch) that the cab ride took five minutes and thirty seconds.

So now we have Oswald exiting Whaley's cab on Beckley at 12:53-12:54.

Still using the stopwatch, they concluded that it was a five minute and forty-five second walk from the point Oswald exited the cab back to the rooming house.

I think Oswald got to the rooming house between 12:58 and 1:00 and was back in his room just long enough to grab a jacket before hurrying out the door, zipping up a jacket as he went out the door.

I think Oswald got to the rooming house between 12:58 and 1:00

Earlene Roberts said that she was trying to get the television to work, to watch the 1:00 news, when Oswald walked in, so you're estimation may well be correct.

and was back in his room just long enough to grab a jacket before hurrying out the door,

I'm not so sure about this, because Oswald told investigators that he changed clothes, which would make sense after having worked in a dusty warehouse.

[Zeon Mason]

The official WC time trial for Whaleys taxi ride was 9 minutes.
When did it become 5 min 30 secs?
If Bowleys watch was correct and it was 1:10 pm then the shooting had  to have occurred about 1:07 pm because of Benavides WC statement of waiting a few minutes before he exited his car.

If Benevides changed his official WC time from “minutes” to “seconds “ , it still does not quite help because you
Have to allow about 1 minute for the preliminary following  of Oswald by Tippit and a conversation that happened.

So by 1:08 pm Oswald has arrive at 10th/Patton

But Oswald leaving the house at 1:04, still does not allow that unless he can run a 0.9 mile in 4 minutes

The simple solution is to discard the bus trip because McWatters did NOT actually identify Oswald and Bledsoe is definitely mistaken since Oswald did NOT have on his brown  shirt with the hole in the sleeve when he left the TSBD.

It’s also doubtful if Oswald really told Fritz anything about a bus ride.

Oswald was wearing the OTHER shirt which is a slight reddish brown shirt that he did not take off until he got to his boarding room, and then he changed to the brown shirt with the hole.

So get rid of the bus trip and Oswald goes directly to Whaleys cab ( which makes more sense if Oswald was wishing to get to his boarding room ASAP) . So he enters the cab about 12:40 and 9 minutes later , exits 5 blocks from boarding house at 12:49

Double times jogs the 5 blocks in 2.5 minutes thus entering house at 12:52.

Exits 4 minutes later at 12:56.

Now Oswald has the 11 minutes needed to walk “briskly” the 0.9 mile and so arrive at 10th and Patton by 1:08-1:09.

Note : imo the bus ticket was  more of the unnecessary embellishment to bolster the WC case and since no fingerprints of Mcwatters or Oswald were on the ticket , the ticket may be discarded as doubtful evidence just like Bledsoe and McWatters are doubtful.

It’s a shame that Earlene  Roberts couldn’t ID that Oswald was wearing ANY jacket when he entered the boarding room nor could she positively ID the light gray jacket as the one that Oswald was wearing when he left the room/ house.

The Best Roberts could do  didmention the zipping up the jacket so If you can sort out the reason why the dark blue jacket was found in the Domino room and why the light gray jacket showed no signs of gunpower residue nor was even tested for residue ( huh?), then maybe you LNs can clean this up a little better

[Martin Weidmann]

The official WC time trial for Whaleys taxi ride was 9 minutes.
When did it become 5 min 30 secs?
If Bowleys watch was correct and it was 1:10 pm then the shooting had  to have occurred about 1:07 pm because of Benavides WC statement of waiting a few minutes before he exited his car.

If Benevides changed his official WC time from “minutes” to “seconds “ , it still does not quite help because you
Have to allow about 1 minute for the preliminary following  of Oswald by Tippit and a conversation that happened.

So by 1:08 pm Oswald has arrive at 10th/Patton

But Oswald leaving the house at 1:04, still does not allow that unless he can run a 0.9 mile in 4 minutes

The simple solution is to discard the bus trip because McWatters did NOT actually identify Oswald and Bledsoe is definitely mistaken since Oswald did NOT have on his brown  shirt with the hole in the sleeve when he left the TSBD.

It’s also doubtful if Oswald really told Fritz anything about a bus ride.

Oswald was wearing the OTHER shirt which is a slight reddish brown shirt that he did not take off until he got to his boarding room, and then he changed to the brown shirt with the hole.

So get rid of the bus trip and Oswald goes directly to Whaleys cab ( which makes more sense if Oswald was wishing to get to his boarding room ASAP) . So he enters the cab about 12:40 and 9 minutes later , exits 5 blocks from boarding house at 12:49

Double times jogs the 5 blocks in 2.5 minutes thus entering house at 12:52.

Exits 4 minutes later at 12:56.

Now Oswald has the 11 minutes needed to walk “briskly” the 0.9 mile and so arrive at 10th and Patton by 1:08-1:09.

Note : imo the bus ticket was  more of the unnecessary embellishment to bolster the WC case and since no fingerprints of Mcwatters or Oswald were on the ticket , the ticket may be discarded as doubtful evidence just like Bledsoe and McWatters are doubtful.

It’s a shame that Earlene  Roberts couldn’t ID that Oswald was wearing ANY jacket when he entered the boarding room nor could she positively ID the light gray jacket as the one that Oswald was wearing when he left the room/ house.

The Best Roberts could do  didmention the zipping up the jacket so If you can sort out the reason why the dark blue jacket was found in the Domino room and why the light gray jacket showed no signs of gunpower residue nor was even tested for residue ( huh?), then maybe you LNs can clean this up a little better

because of Benavides WC statement of waiting a few minutes before he exited his car.

Benavides did not wait a few minutes. Callaway was at the car dealership when he heard the shots. He saw a man running down Patton holding a revolver. After the man passed him, he ran to 10th streets. By the time he got there, which didn't take more than three minutes, Benavides had already made his failed attempt on the radio and Bowley was already on the scene and had talked to the DPD dispatcher for 48 seconds (as per the actual recording). There simply wasn't any time for Benavides to have stayed in his car for minutes.

Have to allow about 1 minute for the preliminary following  of Oswald by Tippit and a conversation that happened.

True, Markham saw Tippit's killer crossing Patton before being stopped by Tippit and had a short conversation. And that's not all; Earlene Roberts saw Oswald standing at the bus stop after leaving the roominghouse, which adds even more time to the timeline.

[Fergus O'brien]

hello bill its been a while , we go back to bob harris old forum .i hope you are well .

"The Secret Service and the FBI reconstructed Oswald's steps (with the help of Cecil McWatters and William Whaley) in an attempt to determine the absolute earliest that Oswald could have reached the rooming house." bill

well oswald may or may not have been on that bus , but i am  not sure what value mcwatters is , as he never identified oswald as the man on the bus . in fact if memory serves me he went to the line up believing he was identifying a young man on his bus who he said was grinning , called roy milton jones . he never positively identified  oswald from any line up . and in fact if i remember correctly both jones and mcwatters said the man on the bus wore a jacket , which contradicts bledsoe who i think is wholly unreliable . she said she saw oswald at about 12.40 on the bus wearing a shirt that was torn , buttons ripped from it and a hole in the elbow .that is quite a case of psychic ability given the damage she said she saw at about 12.40 would not occur for atleast a further hour at about 1.50 .

the transfer has long bothered me .i have no reason to doubt mcwatters gave out two transfers , i believe he told the truth .  but all he could say was one was given to a woman and the other to a man in a jacket .as i said he never identified the man as oswald , he only thought it was oswald and he only mentioned it might have been oswald to milton jones the nest day because he was led to believe by the police that oswald was the man on the bus .but in regard the transfer i have seen photos of it . now if one gave it no thought at all well it could be very easily accepted that that transfer was indeed in oswalds shirt pocket . but we have to consider the scuffle that took place at the theater and how many cops were involved , the condition of oswalds shirt after this encounter with the police at the theater and the manner in which he and the shirt were man handled by the police seen in photos taken at the time . how many pounced on oswald ? . look at the condition of the shirt ,torn and buttons ripped off and look at how the cops seen in photos are pulling and dragging at oswalds shirt while removing him from the theater .

now lets look at the transfer



can anyone see the problem i have with that transfer ? , there is not a wrinkle or crease in it , i cant see how that is possible given what i said above .

but even if we accept that oswald rode on the bus and in the cab it only proves he went home .whalley was not a great witness either in the sense that he admitted seeing oswalds face i believe in a newspaper before he went to a line up . and at the line up he said ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED OSWALD .why ? because he was complaining to the cops who if memory serves were putting him (a 24 year old man who looked atleast 30) in to a line up with teen boys one of whom was latino DARK COMPLECTED .and these were the line ups that the late jim leavelle said were fairly conducted lol .

how many times did whalley have to drive the route in order to get the time down to a time that suited ?. i think the earliest oswald can have arrived home at best was 1 and perhaps 2 minutes before 1pm so we are it seems not far apart in that respect ..we then have to allow for that which you make no allowances for .  that he was in his room several minutes , 3 or 4 according to roberts where he changed his slacks and shirt . and we further have to allow that he was still stood outside at the bus stop a time after he had left the rooming house .roberts said he did not leave the bus stop while she was looking .i believe he was still on beckley at 1.03 or 1.04 pm . at that even if we say he took macks short route well he still arrives too late .