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Author Topic: Towner3 Fence Man Identity  (Read 12116 times)

Offline James Hackerott

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Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« on: November 15, 2023, 02:54:50 PM »
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Analysis of the Towner3 photo fence person shows strong correlation to Marilyn Sitzman as she was filmed by Abe Zapruder a short time before the assassination.

Robert Groden, when discussing the Jim Towner3 slide in his 1993 book "The Killing of a President", wrote the figure looking over the stockade fence at the right of the frame as the first man to reach the stockade fence, and stands on a cement pedestal (22.4” above the current pavement) of the pergola steps. For a short individual, this is a good guess. However, for the tallish Marilyn that puts her too high for overlay with the Towner3 slide. Two steps down puts her at a proper height, and position, for the Towner3 slide.

I modeled Marilyn Sitzman using her height of 6’0” with articulation to give a good overlay with the Towner3 image. She is placed on the second step at the south doorway of the west pergola. The rendering with blue lower legs indicates mid knee level below a partially transparent retaining wall. Along with Mr. and Mrs. Hester, and possibly Mr. Zapruder, she was in the vicinity of the shelter after the last shot struck the president.

Marilyn’s handbag size and style were approximated using Willis09 and Zapruder’s test images taken before the motorcade was in Dealey Plaza. She stands along with the Hesters at the south entrance of the east pergola. She is holding a black purse. When played as a short gif of that scene there a few frames of a visible purse zipper or trim. She is wearing a dress of a light tan or khaki color, similar to that of the figure in Towner3. Mayilyn wears a dark scarf on her head. In some the Zapruder frames the scarf falls perfectly on her back, while other views show the southern windblown scarf on her shoulders. The figure in Towner3 is mostly in shadow, with only a small patch of sunlit khaki colored cloth below the waist.

There are a number of characteristics common to the Towner3 figure and Marilyn Sitzman.
01   Black or dark purse
02   Zipper or trim along the ends of the purse
03    Purse straps that are now resolved in a recent Towner3 enhancement
04   Short sleeves
05    Khaki upper and lower body clothing
06   Black or dark head covering
07   Possible southern windblown scarf now on her right shoulder
08   A 6’0” 3D model on the second step overlays with the Towner3 figure
09   Marilyn Sitzman at or in the shelter post assassination is only mere feet from these steps

Towner3
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_2015-009-0004.jpg

Towner3 vs/ Sitzman Purse Strap and Scarf


Towner3 Sitzman 2 Views Retaining Wall Transparent Blue Lower Legs



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Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« on: November 15, 2023, 02:54:50 PM »


Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2023, 03:06:48 PM »
Analysis of the Towner3 photo fence person shows strong correlation to Marilyn Sitzman as she was filmed by Abe Zapruder a short time before the assassination.

Robert Groden, when discussing the Jim Towner3 slide in his 1993 book "The Killing of a President", wrote the figure looking over the stockade fence at the right of the frame as the first man to reach the stockade fence, and stands on a cement pedestal (22.4” above the current pavement) of the pergola steps. For a short individual, this is a good guess. However, for the tallish Marilyn that puts her too high for overlay with the Towner3 slide. Two steps down puts her at a proper height, and position, for the Towner3 slide.

I modeled Marilyn Sitzman using her height of 6’0” with articulation to give a good overlay with the Towner3 image. She is placed on the second step at the south doorway of the west pergola. The rendering with blue lower legs indicates mid knee level below a partially transparent retaining wall. Along with Mr. and Mrs. Hester, and possibly Mr. Zapruder, she was in the vicinity of the shelter after the last shot struck the president.

Marilyn’s handbag size and style were approximated using Willis09 and Zapruder’s test images taken before the motorcade was in Dealey Plaza. She stands along with the Hesters at the south entrance of the east pergola. She is holding a black purse. When played as a short gif of that scene there a few frames of a visible purse zipper or trim. She is wearing a dress of a light tan or khaki color, similar to that of the figure in Towner3. Mayilyn wears a dark scarf on her head. In some the Zapruder frames the scarf falls perfectly on her back, while other views show the southern windblown scarf on her shoulders. The figure in Towner3 is mostly in shadow, with only a small patch of sunlit khaki colored cloth below the waist.

There are a number of characteristics common to the Towner3 figure and Marilyn Sitzman.
01   Black or dark purse
02   Zipper or trim along the ends of the purse
03    Purse straps that are now resolved in a recent Towner3 enhancement
04   Short sleeves
05    Khaki upper and lower body clothing
06   Black or dark head covering
07   Possible southern windblown scarf now on her right shoulder
08   A 6’0” 3D model on the second step overlays with the Towner3 figure
09   Marilyn Sitzman at or in the shelter post assassination is only mere feet from these steps

Towner3
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_2015-009-0004.jpg

Towner3 vs/ Sitzman Purse Strap and Scarf


Towner3 Sitzman 2 Views Retaining Wall Transparent Blue Lower Legs


Hi James, You see the guy sitting on the pedestal in the Bell film. Could he be your man? To me it looks like a man and not a woman. Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael



Offline Royell Storing

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2023, 04:01:54 PM »
Analysis of the Towner3 photo fence person shows strong correlation to Marilyn Sitzman as she was filmed by Abe Zapruder a short time before the assassination.

Robert Groden, when discussing the Jim Towner3 slide in his 1993 book "The Killing of a President", wrote the figure looking over the stockade fence at the right of the frame as the first man to reach the stockade fence, and stands on a cement pedestal (22.4” above the current pavement) of the pergola steps. For a short individual, this is a good guess. However, for the tallish Marilyn that puts her too high for overlay with the Towner3 slide. Two steps down puts her at a proper height, and position, for the Towner3 slide.

I modeled Marilyn Sitzman using her height of 6’0” with articulation to give a good overlay with the Towner3 image. She is placed on the second step at the south doorway of the west pergola. The rendering with blue lower legs indicates mid knee level below a partially transparent retaining wall. Along with Mr. and Mrs. Hester, and possibly Mr. Zapruder, she was in the vicinity of the shelter after the last shot struck the president.

Marilyn’s handbag size and style were approximated using Willis09 and Zapruder’s test images taken before the motorcade was in Dealey Plaza. She stands along with the Hesters at the south entrance of the east pergola. She is holding a black purse. When played as a short gif of that scene there a few frames of a visible purse zipper or trim. She is wearing a dress of a light tan or khaki color, similar to that of the figure in Towner3. Mayilyn wears a dark scarf on her head. In some the Zapruder frames the scarf falls perfectly on her back, while other views show the southern windblown scarf on her shoulders. The figure in Towner3 is mostly in shadow, with only a small patch of sunlit khaki colored cloth below the waist.

There are a number of characteristics common to the Towner3 figure and Marilyn Sitzman.
01   Black or dark purse
02   Zipper or trim along the ends of the purse
03    Purse straps that are now resolved in a recent Towner3 enhancement
04   Short sleeves
05    Khaki upper and lower body clothing
06   Black or dark head covering
07   Possible southern windblown scarf now on her right shoulder
08   A 6’0” 3D model on the second step overlays with the Towner3 figure
09   Marilyn Sitzman at or in the shelter post assassination is only mere feet from these steps

Towner3
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_2015-009-0004.jpg

Towner3 vs/ Sitzman Purse Strap and Scarf


Towner3 Sitzman 2 Views Retaining Wall Transparent Blue Lower Legs


      Several reasons this is Not Sitzman. For starters, just look at your own model. Sitzman is tall enough standing on that 2nd step to already see over the picket fence. Why would she then be BENDING OVER at the waist? Also, why would she have her left arm extended straight out/perpendicular to her body? Contorting Sitzman's body into this "Twister" position is not natural. And what happened to her scarf that runs down her back? 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 05:22:40 PM by Royell Storing »

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2023, 04:01:54 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2023, 05:23:23 PM »
Analysis of the Towner3 photo fence person shows strong correlation to Marilyn Sitzman as she was filmed by Abe Zapruder a short time before the assassination.

Robert Groden, when discussing the Jim Towner3 slide in his 1993 book "The Killing of a President", wrote the figure looking over the stockade fence at the right of the frame as the first man to reach the stockade fence, and stands on a cement pedestal (22.4” above the current pavement) of the pergola steps. For a short individual, this is a good guess. However, for the tallish Marilyn that puts her too high for overlay with the Towner3 slide. Two steps down puts her at a proper height, and position, for the Towner3 slide.

I modeled Marilyn Sitzman using her height of 6’0” with articulation to give a good overlay with the Towner3 image. She is placed on the second step at the south doorway of the west pergola. The rendering with blue lower legs indicates mid knee level below a partially transparent retaining wall. Along with Mr. and Mrs. Hester, and possibly Mr. Zapruder, she was in the vicinity of the shelter after the last shot struck the president.

Marilyn’s handbag size and style were approximated using Willis09 and Zapruder’s test images taken before the motorcade was in Dealey Plaza. She stands along with the Hesters at the south entrance of the east pergola. She is holding a black purse. When played as a short gif of that scene there a few frames of a visible purse zipper or trim. She is wearing a dress of a light tan or khaki color, similar to that of the figure in Towner3. Mayilyn wears a dark scarf on her head. In some the Zapruder frames the scarf falls perfectly on her back, while other views show the southern windblown scarf on her shoulders. The figure in Towner3 is mostly in shadow, with only a small patch of sunlit khaki colored cloth below the waist.

There are a number of characteristics common to the Towner3 figure and Marilyn Sitzman.
01   Black or dark purse
02   Zipper or trim along the ends of the purse
03    Purse straps that are now resolved in a recent Towner3 enhancement
04   Short sleeves
05    Khaki upper and lower body clothing
06   Black or dark head covering
07   Possible southern windblown scarf now on her right shoulder
08   A 6’0” 3D model on the second step overlays with the Towner3 figure
09   Marilyn Sitzman at or in the shelter post assassination is only mere feet from these steps

Towner3
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_2015-009-0004.jpg

Towner3 vs/ Sitzman Purse Strap and Scarf


Towner3 Sitzman 2 Views Retaining Wall Transparent Blue Lower Legs



Are there any other images taken around the same time frame as Towner3 was taken that shows Sitzman in that area (or elsewhere)? Also, in the extreme camera right hand side of Towner3 there is a man who, to me, resembles Zapruder standing inside the pergola. Has anyone positively identified that man? And what do either Sitzman or Zapruder say that they were doing during this time frame (in the immediate aftermath of the shooting)? Your identification seems very likely correct to me. Especially since Sitzman apparently cannot be positively placed elsewhere during this time period.

Offline Royell Storing

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2023, 05:34:33 PM »

Are there any other images taken around the same time frame as Towner3 was taken that shows Sitzman in that area (or elsewhere)? Also, in the extreme camera right hand side of Towner3 there is a man who, to me, resembles Zapruder standing inside the pergola. Has anyone positively identified that man? And what do either Sitzman or Zapruder say that they were doing during this time frame (in the immediate aftermath of the shooting)? Your identification seems very likely correct to me. Especially since Sitzman apparently cannot be positively placed elsewhere during this time period.

    That portly suited guy inside the Shelter on Towner 3 is wearing a Long Tie. Zapruder was wearing a Bow Tie that day. And do Not forget that Towner 3 is almost always Cropped. The Cropping removes the Guy/Kid on the fence and the image of that Long Tie Man inside the Shelter.

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2023, 05:34:33 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2023, 06:50:37 PM »
    That portly suited guy inside the Shelter on Towner 3 is wearing a Long Tie. Zapruder was wearing a Bow Tie that day. And do Not forget that Towner 3 is almost always Cropped. The Cropping removes the Guy/Kid on the fence and the image of that Long Tie Man inside the Shelter.


I am not so sure that it isn’t a shoulder strap over his left shoulder with the camera case on his right. Did Zapruder have a camera case with a shoulder strap with him that day?




Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2023, 06:54:44 PM »
Hi James, You see the guy sitting on the pedestal in the Bell film. Could he be your man? To me it looks like a man and not a woman. Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael

H Michael. I don't have a man. Do you think I'm joking?

 

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2023, 06:54:44 PM »


Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Towner3 Fence Man Identity
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2023, 07:01:57 PM »
      Several reasons this is Not Sitzman. For starters, just look at your own model. Sitzman is tall enough standing on that 2nd step to already see over the picket fence. Why would she then be BENDING OVER at the waist? Also, why would she have her left arm extended straight out/perpendicular to her body? Contorting Sitzman's body into this "Twister" position is not natural. And what happened to her scarf that runs down her back?
      Several reasons this is Not Sitzman. For starters, just look at your own model. Sitzman is tall enough standing on that 2nd step to already see over the picket fence. Why would she then be BENDING OVER at the waist?
She is not only able to look over the fence, but also beyond the pergola shelter into more of the parking area. The further she moves down the steps the more she could see in that area.
 
Also, why would she have her left arm extended straight out/perpendicular to her body?
Balance?
 Contorting Sitzman's body into this "Twister" position is not natural.
There is nothing unnatural about that "Twister" slur.

 And what happened to her scarf that runs down her back?
Over her right shoulder.