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Author Topic: Trajectory of the first bullet  (Read 6063 times)

Offline Jon Brooks

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Trajectory of the first bullet
« on: November 07, 2023, 12:41:37 AM »
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Hi all, I've been reading and watching JFK assassination stuff for a long time but first time I'm participating in a forum.

I have a question about the trajectory of the "three bullets" that were fired as per the official record. The first missed and hit a curb injuring a bystander. The second was the "magic bullet" that hit JFK and Connolly. The third was the lethal headshot.

So how much did the first bullet miss by? I asked Chat GPT this question and it said:

Regarding the distance the first shot missed by, the Warren Commission estimated that it missed by a significant margin, approximately 160 to 260 feet (about 49 to 79 meters). The exact value is challenging to determine with absolute precision due to the chaotic nature of the event and the available evidence.

I also asked Chat GPT what was the distance from the sniper's next to contact point on JFK:

The Second Shot (the first shot to hit): This shot is believed to have struck both President Kennedy and Texas Governor John Connally. The Commission estimated the distance from the sixth-floor sniper's nest in the Texas School Book Depository to the point of entry on President Kennedy's upper back to be approximately 88.3 yards (approximately 265 feet or 80.8 meters).

The Third Shot (the fatal head shot): This shot struck President Kennedy in the head. The Commission estimated the distance from the sniper's nest to the point of impact on President Kennedy's head to be approximately 265 feet (80.8 meters).


What I want to know is what the supposed trajectory was of the first bullet. Did it fly inches above JFK's head and impact a location in front or was it either side?

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Trajectory of the first bullet
« on: November 07, 2023, 12:41:37 AM »


Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2023, 01:20:18 AM »
Why are u so interested in the official record of the shots?
In any case, there is no such thing. Or, there are lots of different official records.
U should be more interested in the actual shots. In which case u should read my postings on this forum.
Re the first shot, u should read the following threads.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2862.0.html
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg108260.html#msg108260

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2023, 10:26:42 AM »
Hi all, I've been reading and watching JFK assassination stuff for a long time but first time I'm participating in a forum.

I have a question about the trajectory of the "three bullets" that were fired as per the official record. The first missed and hit a curb injuring a bystander. The second was the "magic bullet" that hit JFK and Connolly. The third was the lethal headshot.

So how much did the first bullet miss by? I asked Chat GPT this question and it said:

Regarding the distance the first shot missed by, the Warren Commission estimated that it missed by a significant margin, approximately 160 to 260 feet (about 49 to 79 meters). The exact value is challenging to determine with absolute precision due to the chaotic nature of the event and the available evidence.

I also asked Chat GPT what was the distance from the sniper's next to contact point on JFK:

The Second Shot (the first shot to hit): This shot is believed to have struck both President Kennedy and Texas Governor John Connally. The Commission estimated the distance from the sixth-floor sniper's nest in the Texas School Book Depository to the point of entry on President Kennedy's upper back to be approximately 88.3 yards (approximately 265 feet or 80.8 meters).

The Third Shot (the fatal head shot): This shot struck President Kennedy in the head. The Commission estimated the distance from the sniper's nest to the point of impact on President Kennedy's head to be approximately 265 feet (80.8 meters).


What I want to know is what the supposed trajectory was of the first bullet. Did it fly inches above JFK's head and impact a location in front or was it either side?

The WC didn't really have a clue about which bullet missed.
It is more likely it was the third shot that missed.
Whatever the case, be it first, second or third shot, it missed by a really wide margin.
It is felt by many that the missed shot struck a concrete manhole cover before ricocheting towards Tague.
The Allen pic below gives an idea how much the shot missed by. The red circle marks the area of the manhole cover the bullet is thought to have struck:


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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2023, 10:26:42 AM »


Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2023, 07:44:53 PM »
The WC didn't really have a clue about which bullet missed.
It is more likely it was the third shot that missed.
Whatever the case, be it first, second or third shot, it missed by a really wide margin.
It is felt by many that the missed shot struck a concrete manhole cover before ricocheting towards Tague.
The Allen pic below gives an idea how much the shot missed by. The red circle marks the area of the manhole cover the bullet is thought to have struck:


None of Oswald's 2 shots went anywhere near that manhole.
Hickey's 4 or 5 shots went north of the manhole by say 13 ft.
No shot hit near the manhole.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2023, 07:48:13 PM »
None of Oswald's 2 shots went anywhere near that manhole.
Hickey's 4 or 5 shots went north of the manhole by say 13 ft.
No shot hit near the manhole.

You know nothing about it.

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2023, 07:48:13 PM »


Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2023, 09:32:40 PM »
You know nothing about it.
Was there any evidence?
A mark on the concrete perhaps?

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2023, 09:54:23 PM »
Hi all, I've been reading and watching JFK assassination stuff for a long time but first time I'm participating in a forum.

I have a question about the trajectory of the "three bullets" that were fired as per the official record. The first missed and hit a curb injuring a bystander. The second was the "magic bullet" that hit JFK and Connolly. The third was the lethal headshot.

So how much did the first bullet miss by? I asked Chat GPT this question and it said:

Regarding the distance the first shot missed by, the Warren Commission estimated that it missed by a significant margin, approximately 160 to 260 feet (about 49 to 79 meters). The exact value is challenging to determine with absolute precision due to the chaotic nature of the event and the available evidence.

I also asked Chat GPT what was the distance from the sniper's next to contact point on JFK:

The Second Shot (the first shot to hit): This shot is believed to have struck both President Kennedy and Texas Governor John Connally. The Commission estimated the distance from the sixth-floor sniper's nest in the Texas School Book Depository to the point of entry on President Kennedy's upper back to be approximately 88.3 yards (approximately 265 feet or 80.8 meters).

The Third Shot (the fatal head shot): This shot struck President Kennedy in the head. The Commission estimated the distance from the sniper's nest to the point of impact on President Kennedy's head to be approximately 265 feet (80.8 meters).


What I want to know is what the supposed trajectory was of the first bullet. Did it fly inches above JFK's head and impact a location in front or was it either side?
Chat GPT is hampered by the "garbage in, garbage out" problem. 

If one examines the evidence, without editorializing about it, one sees a significant uncontradicted body of evidence that JFK was struck in the neck on the first shot.  There is also a large body of consistent evidence that JFK was hit in the head by the last shot, although some witnesses gave evidence suggesting that there was a shot after the head shot.   The evidence as to the second shot is provided by George Hickey, the Connallys, somewhat supported by William Greer, James Tague, Gayle Newman as well as Dave Powers.  There is also a large body of evidence that the second shot was closer to the third than to the first.  Together, that evidence shows that the second shot was heard a short time before the third shot (which struck JFK in the head) and that it struck Governor Connally in the back.

So, what Chat GPT lacks is an ability to exclude editorial opinion and stick to the evidence and weigh the evidence judicially.  If it could do that, it should come back with:  "There is no clear evidence that any shot missed.  There is also significant evidence that all three shots struck within the President's limousine hitting one or both of JFK and Gov. Connally.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 09:57:53 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2023, 09:54:23 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Trajectory of the first bullet
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2023, 12:24:25 AM »
Chat GPT is hampered by the "garbage in, garbage out" problem. 

If one examines the evidence, without editorializing about it, one sees a significant uncontradicted body of evidence that JFK was struck in the neck on the first shot.  There is also a large body of consistent evidence that JFK was hit in the head by the last shot, although some witnesses gave evidence suggesting that there was a shot after the head shot.   The evidence as to the second shot is provided by George Hickey, the Connallys, somewhat supported by William Greer, James Tague, Gayle Newman as well as Dave Powers.  There is also a large body of evidence that the second shot was closer to the third than to the first.  Together, that evidence shows that the second shot was heard a short time before the third shot (which struck JFK in the head) and that it struck Governor Connally in the back.

So, what Chat GPT lacks is an ability to exclude editorial opinion and stick to the evidence and weigh the evidence judicially.  If it could do that, it should come back with:  "There is no clear evidence that any shot missed.  There is also significant evidence that all three shots struck within the President's limousine hitting one or both of JFK and Gov. Connally.

So you want Chat GPT to place a greater emphasis on taken-by-surprise-by-a-traumatic-event witnesses? Trained soldiers can't pinpoint by sound alone shot origin in an urbanscape (they need electronic devices). Rape victims swear a certain person did it, only for DNA to overturn the conviction. Dozens of kids will swear they were sexually-abused at the same daycare.

Certain critics have mined the witness accounts, and argued the limousine fully stopped and the head wound seen at Parkland Hospital was at the very rear of the President's head. Others have taken witness accounts of a shot from the front and aftermath footage showing a flood of witnesses towards the fence corner area to prove a shot came from there.

Jean Hill thought she saw a white dog in the limousine. A Parkland doctor thought Jackie wore a white dress. An early news report said a Secret Service agent had been killed in Dealey Plaza. Why have a Commission or similar panel for anything if a simple tabulation of witness accounts is always more accurate?