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Author Topic: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?  (Read 6315 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2018, 07:34:00 PM »
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If none of the evidence is bogus then Oswald must be guilty. He ordered the rifle and handgun and used the rifle to murder the President and used the handgun to murder Officer Tippit.



That would only follow if the evidence actually showed that Oswald ordered the rifle and handgun and used the rifle to murder the President and used the handgun to murder Officer Tippit.  It doesn't.  At least not by anything approaching a reasonable doubt.  You're confusing conclusions based on the evidence (along with a whole lot of speculation and conjecture) with the evidence itself.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2018, 10:39:29 PM »

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That would only follow if the evidence actually showed that Oswald ordered the rifle and handgun and used the rifle to murder the President and used the handgun to murder Officer Tippit.  It doesn't.  At least not by anything approaching a reasonable doubt.  You're confusing conclusions based on the evidence (along with a whole lot of speculation and conjecture) with the evidence itself.



How is it this evidence does not prove this?

Because the paper trail is faked? Who faked it? How many people would it take to fake this? Who was in a position to assign the people to produce and insert the fake paper work in the appropriate location, to make it appear that this rifle was ordered by the same ?person? whose fake ID Oswald was found carrying?

Or do you believe that Oswald was not really carrying a fake ID? Even if this is so, officers would be needed to plant the fake ID on him and go along with the story, and other people would be needed to produce the fake paper trail that seems to lead to a P. O. Box associated with this alias.



In any case you seem not the least bit interested in producing a list of the evidence that is most likely faked, and the people needed to fake this evidence. This is one would likely do if they do not want to expose the fact that they believe in a large conspiracy.


You seem to use the cover ?Well, I?m not saying for certain there was a large secret conspiracy, so technically I am not a large secret conspiracy believer? while suggesting that there was.


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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2018, 10:39:29 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2018, 10:59:32 PM »
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How is it this evidence does not prove this?

Because the paper trail is faked? Who faked it? How many people would it take to fake this? Who was in a position to assign the people to produce and insert the fake paper work in the appropriate location, to make it appear that this rifle was ordered by the same ?person? whose fake ID Oswald was found carrying?

Or do you believe that Oswald was not really carrying a fake ID? Even if this is so, officers would be needed to plant the fake ID on him and go along with the story, and other people would be needed to produce the fake paper trail that seems to lead to a P. O. Box associated with this alias.



In any case you seem not the least bit interested in producing a list of the evidence that is most likely faked, and the people needed to fake this evidence. This is one would likely do if they do not want to expose the fact that they believe in a large conspiracy.


You seem to use the cover ?Well, I?m not saying for certain there was a large secret conspiracy, so technically I am not a large secret conspiracy believer? while suggesting that there was.

Because the paper trail is faked? Who faked it? How many people would it take to fake this? Who was in a position to assign the people to produce and insert the fake paper work in the appropriate location, to make it appear that this rifle was ordered by the same ?person? whose fake ID Oswald was found carrying?

Why would the entire paper trail be faked and why would there be a need to insert fake documents in some location? In case of the rifle all it took to create the entire papertrail was a small order form (with only a few words written on it) and a money order, right?

For the revolver there was even less paperwork.

Or do you believe that Oswald was not really carrying a fake ID? Even if this is so, officers would be needed to plant the fake ID on him and go along with the story, and other people would be needed to produce the fake paper trail that seems to lead to a P. O. Box associated with this alias.

To answer your question first; I don't know if Oswald was carrying a fake ID or not. All I know is that there is no day 1 report from any of the arresting officers, including Paul Bentley who took a wallet from Oswald in the car, that mentions something as significant as a fake ID. Can you give a reasonable explanation for why that is?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2018, 11:10:13 PM »
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That would only follow if the evidence actually showed that Oswald ordered the rifle and handgun and used the rifle to murder the President and used the handgun to murder Officer Tippit.  It doesn't.  At least not by anything approaching a reasonable doubt.  You're confusing conclusions based on the evidence (along with a whole lot of speculation and conjecture) with the evidence itself.






Quote
At least not by anything approaching a reasonable doubt.

This is where you fail, isn't the criteria "reasonable doubt by a reasonable person" and you have repeatedly shown yourself not to be a reasonable person, therefore in my estimation you would not be picked to be on a jury and thus your repeated use of "reasonable doubt" is simply self serving nonsense!



JohnM

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2018, 11:10:13 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2018, 11:25:19 PM »
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This is where you fail, isn't the criteria "reasonable doubt by a reasonable person" and you have repeatedly shown yourself not to be a reasonable person, therefore in my estimation you would not be picked to be on a jury and thus your repeated use of "reasonable doubt" is simply self serving nonsense!

JohnM

Anybody can play this stupid game, Johnny

In my estimation you are not a reasonable person, so your opinion can not be considered anything else but nonsense.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2018, 11:35:16 PM »
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Anybody can play this stupid game, Johnny

In my estimation you are not a reasonable person, so your opinion can not be considered anything else but nonsense.





Huh? You're attempting to make a comparison where none exists, the evidence is solid and tangible and my influence of being reasonable has absolutely no impact on this Mountain of Evidence but on the other hand people like you and Iacoletti continually attempt to dispute virtually every piece of evidence and this blatant illogical paranoia can only be seen as "unreasonable" which makes my original point even more valid.



JohnM
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 11:38:02 PM by John Mytton »

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2018, 11:35:16 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2018, 12:08:43 AM »
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Huh? You're attempting to make a comparison where none exists, the evidence is solid and tangible and my influence of being reasonable has absolutely no impact on this Mountain of Evidence but on the other hand people like you and Iacoletti continually attempt to dispute virtually every piece of evidence and this blatant illogical paranoia can only be seen as "unreasonable" which makes my original point even more valid.



JohnM

The mere fact that you keep calling it a "mountain of evidence" proves that you are not a reasonable person.


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2018, 02:24:00 AM »

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Because the paper trail is faked? Who faked it? How many people would it take to fake this? Who was in a position to assign the people to produce and insert the fake paper work in the appropriate location, to make it appear that this rifle was ordered by the same ?person? whose fake ID Oswald was found carrying?

Why would the entire paper trail be faked and why would there be a need to insert fake documents in some location? In case of the rifle all it took to create the entire papertrail was a small order form (with only a few words written on it) and a money order, right?

For the revolver there was even less paperwork.



But only the CIA, the FBI or the police would not know what form to recreate. They don?t know how Klein's Sporting Goods stores its records. They don?t know where in the Klein?s Sporting Goods records to insert such paperwork.

Even if the CIA did insert this paperwork, they wouldn?t know if that company keeps an index list of purchases. It would look bad if there was paperwork for other rifle orders, which also appeared on the index list. But not Oswald?s order.

No, to pull this off, to have the Klein?s Sporting Goods Company to go through it?s records and find this paperwork, you would need the Klein?s Sporting Goods Company involved with the conspiracy. If not the entire company, the CIA would somehow have to make inquires to identify the key people who know what paperwork is kept and then recruit them.

Since Oswald had a rifle and seemed to be obeying the orders of this alleged conspiracy (be sure to bring a long object wrapped in a paper bag on the morning the President drive by) it would seem simpler to just instruct Oswald to order himself a rifle, rather than recruit the Klein?s Sporting Goods company into the conspiracy and have them create a fake paper trail.




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Or do you believe that Oswald was not really carrying a fake ID? Even if this is so, officers would be needed to plant the fake ID on him and go along with the story, and other people would be needed to produce the fake paper trail that seems to lead to a P. O. Box associated with this alias.

To answer your question first; I don't know if Oswald was carrying a fake ID or not. All I know is that there is no day 1 report from any of the arresting officers, including Paul Bentley who took a wallet from Oswald in the car, that mentions something as significant as a fake ID. Can you give a reasonable explanation for why that is?



Can you provide me with link to the paperwork Paul Bentley filed that day? I would be curious to know what else was missing from that paperwork.

I don?t know how through the Dallas Police department was with immediate paperwork. And what need is there since the fake ID is being stored? I don?t know of any need, unless Bentley was afraid that people were suspecting that they were creating a false case against Oswald and so he needs to carefully itemize everything to help deflect this. But I don?t know if that had ever occurred to him on that day.

And all this seems to be nothing more than needlessly postulating a conspiracy that does everything at the last second. Planning this assassination for weeks and it isn?t until immediately after the assassination that it occurs to them that they need to make a fake ID and get some fake paperwork from Klein?s Sporting Goods before the weekend is over.





But so far, Martin, you are dodging my main question. Why can?t a CTer provide a list of the evidence that was probably fake and a rough count of who was involved?

Had you attempted such a list, would you have remembered to include the Klein?s Sporting Goods Company?

I can only think that CTers don?t provide such a list because it would be like providing a list of all the grains of sand to be found on a certain beach.


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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2018, 02:24:00 AM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2018, 10:32:37 AM »
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So, are you a CTer or not?

Questions:

If you are a CTer, can you provide a list of the evidence that was faked?

Can you provide a rough list of all those involved in this alledged conspiracy?




And by doing so argument that you are not a believer in Large Secret Conspiracies.

Please define a CTer as requested. Why is this task impossible for your group?

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2018, 11:38:26 AM »
Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill John F. Kennedy.

Lee Henry Oswald did.

Or Harvey Lee Oswald did.

I can never keep them straight.

Steve Thomas

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Re: A Topic for LN's: What is a CT?
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2018, 11:38:26 AM »

 

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