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Author Topic: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?  (Read 24106 times)

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2023, 09:27:40 AM »
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Hi Dan, Bill and Billy appear to be trying to catch up with Officer Smith. Also, for falsehoods in their testimonies, you can add that they did not turn around and watch the Officer Baker entrance, and it did not take three minutes for them to leave the TSBD steps. Thank you kind sir! Sincerely yours, Michael

« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 09:35:41 AM by Michael Welch »

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2023, 09:27:40 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #89 on: September 18, 2023, 12:23:10 PM »
Also, for falsehoods in their testimonies, you can add that they did not turn around and watch the Officer Baker entrance, and it did not take three minutes for them to leave the TSBD steps.

Or, those things are true and your two blurry Couch figures are not who you think they are.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2023, 03:39:30 PM »
Hi Dan. Remember I conceded immediately after your last post that they did not see Gloria. Bill was Gloria's best man at her wedding. So after the testimony of Joe Molina was out that Gloria cryingly had told him that the President had been shot, her experience as well as a Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles encounter inside the TSBD were added. Your finding a running Billy is confirmed by his testimony of I was doing a fast walk; trotting! Also Bill seems to be picking up his pace after Billy! Thank you for your helpful input! Sincerely yours, Michael

The question I was hoping you would answer was - when did the interaction between Shelley, Lovelady and Calvery take place?

The only answer that you can give, as I understand it, is that it happened before the clip which you believe shows Shelley and Lovelady.
This would have Shelley going out to where the traffic lights are, meeting with Calvery and following her back to the TSBD, Calvery telling Billy Lovelady about the shooting and Shelley/Lovelady walking a good distance down the Elm Street extension before Baker had even gotten off his bike.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but when do you believe the interaction between Shelley and Calvery, then Lovelady and Calvery took place?
Thank you so much for raising this fascinating topic  Thumb1: Thumb1:


« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 03:40:26 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2023, 03:39:30 PM »


Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2023, 03:50:31 PM »
The question I was hoping you would answer was - when did the interaction between Shelley, Lovelady and Calvery take place?

The only answer that you can give, as I understand it, is that it happened before the clip which you believe shows Shelley and Lovelady.
This would have Shelley going out to where the traffic lights are, meeting with Calvery and following her back to the TSBD, Calvery telling Billy Lovelady about the shooting and Shelley/Lovelady walking a good distance down the Elm Street extension before Baker had even gotten off his bike.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but when do you believe the interaction between Shelley and Calvery, then Lovelady and Calvery took place?
Thank you so much for raising this fascinating topic  Thumb1: Thumb1:

Hi Dan, I guess I was not clear, sorry! I am saying that the Calvery encounter did not happen, the looking at Marrion Baker did not happen; the encounter inside of the TSBD with Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles did not happen; the claim that it took three minutes to leave the steps did not happen, etc. Testimonies are full of errors and manipulation; pictures override these! Thank you for your participation in this fascinating topic! Sincerely yours, Michael

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2023, 09:54:35 PM »



Hi, This is how a 1960s Dr Pepper bottle acts in the sunlight. It is not as reflective as you would think it would be! Sincerely yours, Michael
This top picture will do an enlargement!!! Just move the bold black line over!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 10:19:20 PM by Michael Welch »

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2023, 09:54:35 PM »


Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2023, 04:22:51 AM »






Hi, Here is an interesting picture of Bill and Lee working together in New Orleans. Sincerely yours, Michael
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 09:25:13 AM by Michael Welch »

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2023, 10:45:32 AM »
Hi Dan, I guess I was not clear, sorry! I am saying that the Calvery encounter did not happen, the looking at Marrion Baker did not happen; the encounter inside of the TSBD with Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles did not happen; the claim that it took three minutes to leave the steps did not happen, etc. Testimonies are full of errors and manipulation; pictures override these! Thank you for your participation in this fascinating topic! Sincerely yours, Michael

Hi Michael, in my opinion there can be little doubt the encounter with Calvery took place. That she came up to the steps in an almost hysterical state is confirmed by multiple people:

Frazier - "Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy...She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people."

Mr. Ball: Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. Ball: What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.


There is no doubt Calvery came running up to the steps in a very upset state telling people the President was shot.
It is interesting to note that Officer Baker observes the following as he approaches the TSBD building steps:

Baker - ...there was a woman standing--well, all these people were running, and there was a woman screaming, "Oh, they have shot that man, they have shot that man."


This might be a reference to Calvery who, I believe, raced back to the TSBD building as soon as she saw the headshot and was at the steps before Baker arrived. If this is the case she would've also crossed paths with officer Joe Marshall Smith, who is believed to be the officer at the far end of the Elm Street extension in the Darnell/Couch clip. He reports:

Smith - Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here.


Both Smith and Baker appear to be reporting a very upset female who was an eye-witness to the shooting, meaning she had very quickly moved from a position further down on Elm Street back to the area immediately in front of the TSBD building. So, when Shelley reports, within two hours of the assassination:

"...I heard what sounded like three shots...I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery...I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife..."


There is little reason to doubt this.
Obviously, this is a massive problem for the identification yourself and Brian are trying to propose. Your initial attempts to show the "Gloria encounter" were thwarted so you've simply ditched the whole thing as you know how problematic it is for your identification. From fully acknowledging the encounter happened and a failed attempt to demonstrate it, to now taking the stand it never happened. And all within the space of a few short posts.
That's the kind of flexibility many yoga gurus would be proud of.
At least you've not taken Brian's road, who appears to be doubling-down on his insane suggestion that the woman who races straight past the two men within a fraction of a second has, somehow, stopped for a chat.
What's funny is the clip he posted to show this "interaction" in slow motion actually shows "Shelley" looking away from the girl as she streaks past and that "Lovelady" is stood in between the girl and "Shelley" for the nano-second this interaction is supposed to have taken place.
But, like you, his mind is made up and no amount of evidence is going to change that.

That said, I do believe both Shelley and Lovelady are liars but there is a pattern to their lying which doesn't involve the reality of the encounter with Calvery. And why these two so-called ordinary workmen should be lying to the authorities from day one is another subject altogether.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 10:56:22 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2023, 10:45:32 AM »


Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2023, 01:28:31 PM »
Hi Michael, in my opinion there can be little doubt the encounter with Calvery took place. That she came up to the steps in an almost hysterical state is confirmed by multiple people:

Frazier - "Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy...She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people."

Mr. Ball: Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. Ball: What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.


There is no doubt Calvery came running up to the steps in a very upset state telling people the President was shot.
It is interesting to note that Officer Baker observes the following as he approaches the TSBD building steps:

Baker - ...there was a woman standing--well, all these people were running, and there was a woman screaming, "Oh, they have shot that man, they have shot that man."


This might be a reference to Calvery who, I believe, raced back to the TSBD building as soon as she saw the headshot and was at the steps before Baker arrived. If this is the case she would've also crossed paths with officer Joe Marshall Smith, who is believed to be the officer at the far end of the Elm Street extension in the Darnell/Couch clip. He reports:

Smith - Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here.


Both Smith and Baker appear to be reporting a very upset female who was an eye-witness to the shooting, meaning she had very quickly moved from a position further down on Elm Street back to the area immediately in front of the TSBD building. So, when Shelley reports, within two hours of the assassination:

"...I heard what sounded like three shots...I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery...I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife..."


There is little reason to doubt this.
Obviously, this is a massive problem for the identification yourself and Brian are trying to propose. Your initial attempts to show the "Gloria encounter" were thwarted so you've simply ditched the whole thing as you know how problematic it is for your identification. From fully acknowledging the encounter happened and a failed attempt to demonstrate it, to now taking the stand it never happened. And all within the space of a few short posts.
That's the kind of flexibility many yoga gurus would be proud of.
At least you've not taken Brian's road, who appears to be doubling-down on his insane suggestion that the woman who races straight past the two men within a fraction of a second has, somehow, stopped for a chat.
What's funny is the clip he posted to show this "interaction" in slow motion actually shows "Shelley" looking away from the girl as she streaks past and that "Lovelady" is stood in between the girl and "Shelley" for the nano-second this interaction is supposed to have taken place.
But, like you, his mind is made up and no amount of evidence is going to change that.

That said, I do believe both Shelley and Lovelady are liars but there is a pattern to their lying which doesn't involve the reality of the encounter with Calvery. And why these two so-called ordinary workmen should be lying to the authorities from day one is another subject altogether.

Hi Dan, No, in your evidence you are saying that Bill Did Not meet Gloria on the steps!!!"...I heard what sounded like three shots...I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery...I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife..."
    Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael

At his W.C. testimony Joe Molina says he sees Gloria Calvery arrive in the lobby and discusses the shooting. So did Gloria twice say the same story, first with Bill Shelley and then in the lobby? Or was there a little pow wow afterwards? This would also indicate that Calvery’s appearance inside the T.S.B.D. would be several minutes after the assassination and not on the TSBD steps!!!

Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary[sic]?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. BALL. What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said “Oh, my God, Joe, he’s been shot.” They were both horrified. I said “Are you sure he was shot?” She said “Oh, Joe ,I’m sure. I saw his hair fly up and I’m sure he was shot” something to that extent.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 02:01:17 PM by Michael Welch »