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Author Topic: They taught me how to kill, and I liked it.  (Read 7930 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: They taught me how to kill, and I liked it.
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2023, 03:53:12 PM »
You couldn’t “disabuse” your way out of a wet paper bag.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: They taught me how to kill, and I liked it.
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2023, 03:53:12 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: They taught me how to kill, and I liked it.
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2023, 10:26:56 PM »
I'm not sure he had that great man fantasy when he was in the Soviet Union? Didn't that arise when he came back? E.g., he writes his "Historic Diary"? But if so why no violent backlash/behavior as he failed to become famous? Marina said he hit her a few times with an open hand; but that's the extent of it. The evidence is that he adapted to his life, he had friends, a decent job supplemented by the Soviet "Red Cross", a wife, a child, a life.

McMillan again makes this point, one I think is true:  "Marina observed that by the time she and Oswald had dealt with the red tape required to leave Russia and emigrate to the United States, the steam had gone out of Oswald’s desire to go home. He had a baby daughter now, he felt settled, and he was afraid the US government might prosecute him for his one-time offer to give radar secrets to the Russians. It was not, as Peter Savodnik says, that Oswald felt himself a failure. It was bureaucratic momentum and his fear of losing face that made him go through with his return to America."

I don't think he wanted to leave the USSR because he didn't become famous. I think he just got bored, perhaps homesick, and wanted to return. Then when he realized what he was giving up, what he potentially faced, it was too late to turn back again.

I see a violent angry man in the US that wasn't there in the USSR.

BTW, with the movie out it's interesting that McMillan wrote an interesting biography on Oppenheimer. Very pro-Oppenheimer and very critical of his opponents. She says he was a victim of McCarthyism and the arms race could have been, if not avoided at least mitigated, if he and his views weren't rejected out of Cold War fear. I think that's a stretch but it's a good read.

Here’s an interesting snip from McMillan’s book about Oppenheimer:

In smaller ways, Oppenheimer still fell short of the perfection he required of himself. He was a “totally demanding” boss, expecting Mrs. Hobson, when she first worked for him, to take dictation in English, French, and German and in mathematical formulas. He preempted the private lives of those who worked for him. And when the White House announced in April 1963 that President Kennedy would present him with the Fermi Prize that fall, Robert “could hardly bear it” and wanted to decline. “But of course you have to accept,” she told him. “I know,” he said. But he hated the whole thing—because Teller had won the year before, and because the award to him was so clearly a political gesture. When the time came, within days of the Kennedy assassination, for President Johnson to present the award in a White House ceremony, Oppenheimer performed graciously and did not blanch even when Teller maneuvered himself within camera range in order to be photographed shaking his hand. It was a “bittersweet” occasion, Anne Marks said, and Kitty Oppenheimer saluted it in her own way. She went to New York and, for ten thousand dollars, bought a mink coat, a slender, saronglike wrap in which she was resplendent. When someone asked Robert what he was going to do with the prize money, he said, “I’ve already spent it.”4

So, JFK intended to award Oppenheimer the Fermi Prize. But the assassination changed things so that LBJ made the presentation. Here’s a link to an article about the presentation:

From that article, here are the words spoken by Robert Oppenheimer upon receiving the prize:

[At this point, Dr. Oppenheimer expressed his appreciation for the award. In a brief statement he noted that Jefferson had often written of the brotherly spirit of science. "We have not, 1 Know, always given evidence of that brotherly spirit .... This is not because we lack vital common or intersecting scientific interests. It is in part because, with countless other men and women, we are engaged in this great enterprise of our time, testing whether men can both preserve and enlarge life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and live without war as the great arbiter of history. In this enterprise, no one bears a greater responsibility than the President of the United States. I think it just possible, Mr. President, that it has taken some charity and some courage for you to make this award today. That would seem to be a good augury for all our futures.

["These words," he said, "I wrote down almost a fortnight ago. In a somber time. I gratefully and gladly speak them to you."
« Last Edit: August 15, 2023, 10:27:41 PM by Charles Collins »