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Author Topic: Who do you believe?  (Read 8716 times)

Offline Wesley Johnson

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 08:38:41 PM »
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I don't know if I believe Oswald or not, since I have no idea what he actually said.

I believe that Arnold caught a glimpse of somebody she recalled as being Oswald.  Exactly when and where this happened is a matter of dispute.


John you seem like the type of person that if you were standing with a friend and a crime was committed right in front of the two of you and your friend said it was a man in black clothes you would say "I really don't believe or believe the clothes were black, they could have been gray". Come on jump down off that fence and take a stand. Which theory do you believe? I have stated clearly what I believe so why don't you and we can get on with a fair debate.   

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 08:38:41 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 08:40:39 PM »
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Jack Tatum simply reinforced what already happened whereas Arnold made up an entirely new story.

Arnold didn't make up an entirely new story.  As early as 11/26 she mentioned catching a glimpse of Oswald right around the time she left the building to go outside.  Whether the FBI recorded the details correctly is a matter of dispute for several witnesses.

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Louie Steven Witt just clarified what he did and the alternative that he used a poison dart is probably likely in your world.

You guys never get tired of making up arguments, do you?

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Btw why this weak attempt at diverting away from Wesley's powerful presentation but I suppose when you have no evidence this type of digression is all you got!

You always think that arguments that rely on rhetoric and unproven assumptions are "powerful".  Look at your sycophantic treatment of Bugliosi's "53".

Offline Anthony Clayden

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 08:40:54 PM »
For Oswald to be guilty he has to make the trip from the 6th floor "shooter's nest" to 2nd floor lunch room before Truly and Baker arrive there.
The only path for him to have done so was the rear staircase. (Truly's observation of the lifts precludes their use by Oswald)
Whilst the investigation proved the trip was possible in the time available, it did not prove the path was clear for him to have done so.
All staff in the TSBD between the 6th and 2nd should have been interviewed as to their location and if their actions could have precluded the suspect from using that route.
Adams and Styles descent time is controverted, however the obvious step was to interview Garner and Dorman. If the "Stroud" document is genuine (as I believe it is) then it would appear that the investigation did at least speak to Garner, got an answer they didn't like, so "lost" her testimony. Now Garner may have followed Adams and Styles as they made an early descent and then stayed in the rear area and saw Truly and Baker ascend, but that doesn't preclude Oswald somehow sneaking past her. However due to the failure of the investigation to properly check the possible people that may have been in Oswald's path and enter their testimony into the official record, we will never know officially iof the path was clear and that alone for me is reasonable doubt as to Oswald's guilt. (Especially when added to the fact that the investigation appears to have known about Garner's movements but appears to have deliberately excluded this piece of information)
 

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 08:40:54 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 08:45:58 PM »
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John you seem like the type of person that if you were standing with a friend and a crime was committed right in front of the two of you and your friend said it was a man in black clothes you would say "I really don't believe or believe the clothes were black, they could have been gray".

You seem like the kind of person who was 100 miles away from that crime, was told that the clothes were 4 different colors by 4 different witnesses, and then just declared that they must have been black because that's your favorite color.

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Come on jump down off that fence and take a stand. Which theory do you believe? I have stated clearly what I believe so why don't you and we can get on with a fair debate.

I don't form conclusions without a good reason to do so.  Why do you?

Offline Wesley Johnson

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 08:55:20 PM »
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You seem like the kind of person who was 100 miles away from that crime, was told that the clothes were 4 different colors by 4 different witnesses, and then just declared that they must have been black because that's your favorite color.

I don't form conclusions without a good reason to do so.  Why do you?

Still balancing on that fence John. I'm just trying to get you to say which conspiracy you believe. I have been straight forward with what I believe. Have you been to Dealy Plaza? Do you have experience with firearms? My point in asking that is, I have been at the scene of the crime and not a 100 miles away. I have done my own study and research of it John. I'm not afraid to say what I believe, but you seem terrified of just saying which conspiracy you believe. Fascinating.

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 08:55:20 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 09:07:00 PM »
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Still balancing on that fence John. I'm just trying to get you to say which conspiracy you believe. I have been straight forward with what I believe. Have you been to Dealy Plaza? Do you have experience with firearms? My point in asking that is, I have been at the scene of the crime and not a 100 miles away. I have done my own study and research of it John. I'm not afraid to say what I believe, but you seem terrified of just saying which conspiracy you believe. Fascinating.

This is a loaded question.  Which of your wives did you beat?

What makes you think there is any conspiracy that I believe in?  Yes, I've been to Dealey Plaza multiple times.  Not that it makes any difference unless you were there at 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963.  And perhaps not even then.

So you've said what you believe.  Now what are your reasons for believing it?  If it's because you think bullets have been linked to Oswald, I think I see the problem.

Offline Wesley Johnson

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 09:16:12 PM »
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This is a loaded question.  Which of your wives did you beat?

What makes you think there is any conspiracy that I believe in?  Yes, I've been to Dealey Plaza multiple times.  Not that it makes any difference unless you were there at 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963.  And perhaps not even then.

So you've said what you believe.  Now what are your reasons for believing it?  If it's because you think bullets have been linked to Oswald, I think I see the problem.

John, you disappoint me. I thought we were having an adult debate here and you start insulting. Most of you CT's do when you can't answer the most basic questions about the assassination. I'm not going to insult you back and play that childish game. I think you know exactly what I believe because I have stated it. You on the other hand can't even admit that you believe there was a conspiracy. One more time John, can you cite one piece of physical, ballistic evidence that points to anyone other than Oswald? 

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 09:16:12 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 09:28:33 PM »
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John, you disappoint me. I thought we were having an adult debate here and you start insulting.

I didn't insult you.  I was illustrating to you what a loaded question is.  It's a question that has a built-in assumption behind it.

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You on the other hand can't even admit that you believe there was a conspiracy.

Are you in the habit of deciding what it is that the people you talk to believe?  I'll bet you're a lot of fun at parties.

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One more time John, can you cite one piece of physical, ballistic evidence that points to anyone other than Oswald?

Not anything that's particularly convincing.  There's the alleged Malcolm Wallace print for example, and the second man that several witnesses claimed to see.

But so what?  Is Oswald just automatically guilty if nobody else can be proven to be?

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 09:28:33 PM »

Offline Wesley Johnson

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 09:37:14 PM »
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I didn't insult you.  I was illustrating to you what a loaded question is.  It's a question that has a built-in assumption behind it.

Are you in the habit of deciding what it is that the people you talk to believe?  I'll bet you're a lot of fun at parties.

Not anything that's particularly convincing.  There's the alleged Malcolm Wallace print for example, and the second man that several witnesses claimed to see.

But so what?  Is Oswald just automatically guilty if nobody else can be proven to be?

Okay John, we are finally getting somewhere. You admit that you cannot cite any credible evidence one way or the other. So do you believe it was really Malcolm Wallace's print? Name the witnesses who claimed to see Wallace. 

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 09:54:09 PM »
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Okay John, we are finally getting somewhere. You admit that you cannot cite any credible evidence one way or the other. So do you believe it was really Malcolm Wallace's print? Name the witnesses who claimed to see Wallace.

I've already said that I haven't seen anything particularly convincing.  You on the other hand are convinced that Oswald did it.  Name the witnesses who claimed to see Oswald shoot JFK.

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Re: Who do you believe?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 09:54:09 PM »

 

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