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Online Charles Collins

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2023, 01:55:45 AM »
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There was no obligation for the federal government to investigate this case.  The DPD was satisfied of Oswald's guilt based upon the evidence that had been obtained.  If the highest levels of the US government were involved in the assassination, framing of Oswald, and cover up, then the very last thing they would have done is to initiate a voluntary investigation into the matter.  That would be absurd.  The WC did an outstanding job.  If CTer loons want to believe that they didn't keep an open mind and had a preconceived conclusion, maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.  If the WC was biased toward Oswald, it was because the evidence demonstrates that he was stone cold guilty of this crime.  There is no doubt.


…maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.

Here’s a twist from the late Donald E. Wilkes, a CTer that apparently, and inexplicably, believed all the incriminating evidence somehow means LHO was framed.  ::)

One of the mysteries that still surrounds Oswald is why, assuming he was the presidential assassin, he appears to have left behind him, in the words of Melanson, “a trail that any correspondence school gum-shoe could follow... a trail of self-implicating evidence...”
Here are just three examples of Oswald unnecessarily engaging in conduct that either strongly suggested he was guilty of assassinating JFK or made it extremely easy for others to identify him on the day of the assassination. Each example raises the same question: For what possible reason would a presidential assassin act so indescribably doltishly?
First, although it is a little-known fact, Warren Commission documents prove beyond doubt that at the time of his arrest less than two hours after the assassination Oswald was wearing on his left wrist a shiny sterling silver identification bracelet with his name on it! A taxi driver who drove Oswald after the assassination and who happened to make and collect identification bracelets, was deposed by Warren Commission staff and testified about seeing the bracelet when Oswald sat next to him in the cab, and in his deposition a Dallas policeman testified that at the police station he removed from Oswald’s wrist a bracelet with Oswald’s name on it. Therefore, if the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the single assassin, then this means that when Oswald set out to murder an American president he opted to wear an easy-to-spot bracelet with his name on it and that after the assassination he opted to continue wearing it. This is not only mysterious but unfathomable. Why in the world would a presidential assassin behave in such an astonishingly foolish manner?
Second, the Warren Report says that when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested he had in his left hip pocket a wallet, which Dallas police seized while he was a prisoner in a police car transporting him to headquarters. In this wallet were valid identification documents in his name as well as two phony identification documents in the name of Alek James Hidell, a fictional person made up by Oswald. The Hidell name was allegedly an alias sometimes used by Oswald. The Report also says that an Italian carbine used to shoot JFK had been ordered by mail by a person who gave his name as “A. Hidell.”
If, therefore, the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the sole assassin, then this means that Oswald set out to murder the President of the United States while carrying a wallet bearing false identification in the name of the fictional person he had invented and utilized to procure the murder weapon. Once again, a presidential assassin is acting mysteriously and unfathomably.
f Oswald had ordered the rifle he allegedly used to assassinate the President under the name Hidell,” JFK assassination researcher Hasan Yusuf sensibly asks, “why would he be carrying in his wallet a fake card with a photograph of him (and with the name Hidell on it) on the day of the assassination, when the only purpose it served was to incriminate him?”
Third, the Warren Report says that Lee Harvey Oswald used the Hidell alias to order both a carbine with which he assassinated JFK and a pistol with which he murdered Dallas police officer J. D. Tippit (who was shot after stepping out of his patrol car on a Dallas street around 45 minutes after the presidential assassination), and that when he purchased them Oswald had both weapons delivered to a post office box that he had rented in his own name. Once again, a presidential assassin is behaving mysteriously and unfathomably.
As JFK assassination blogger Bert J. Paulson comments: “The idea that Oswald would order the rifle and the revolver under the Hidell name, but have them delivered to his Post Office box under his real name, is truly absurd and bizarre. Now, obviously, the purpose of using an alias is to conceal the fact that he had purchased the weapons. So why in God’s name would he have them delivered to his P.O. box?”
The most likely answer to questions about why it appears that for no apparent reason Oswald left behind him a swath of incriminating evidence is that he was not the presidential assassin and did not kill police officer Tippit; that instead he was an innocent person being framed by conspirators who intended to make him to be the patsy for both crimes; and that his apparently incriminating behavior was actually an indication of a frame-up. The conspirators, or corrupt police in league with them, could, for example, have planted the false Hidell identification documents Dallas police said they found in Oswald’s arrest wallet.



https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1208&context=fac_pm
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 01:58:04 AM by Charles Collins »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2023, 03:27:47 AM »
If CTer loons want to believe that they didn't keep an open mind and had a preconceived conclusion, maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.

Which “Richard” never seems to be able to specify. Beyond his usual list of unsubstantiated claims.

Online John Mytton

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2023, 04:09:47 AM »

…maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.

Here’s a twist from the late Donald E. Wilkes, a CTer that apparently, and inexplicably, believed all the incriminating evidence somehow means LHO was framed.  ::)

One of the mysteries that still surrounds Oswald is why, assuming he was the presidential assassin, he appears to have left behind him, in the words of Melanson, “a trail that any correspondence school gum-shoe could follow... a trail of self-implicating evidence...”
Here are just three examples of Oswald unnecessarily engaging in conduct that either strongly suggested he was guilty of assassinating JFK or made it extremely easy for others to identify him on the day of the assassination. Each example raises the same question: For what possible reason would a presidential assassin act so indescribably doltishly?
First, although it is a little-known fact, Warren Commission documents prove beyond doubt that at the time of his arrest less than two hours after the assassination Oswald was wearing on his left wrist a shiny sterling silver identification bracelet with his name on it! A taxi driver who drove Oswald after the assassination and who happened to make and collect identification bracelets, was deposed by Warren Commission staff and testified about seeing the bracelet when Oswald sat next to him in the cab, and in his deposition a Dallas policeman testified that at the police station he removed from Oswald’s wrist a bracelet with Oswald’s name on it. Therefore, if the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the single assassin, then this means that when Oswald set out to murder an American president he opted to wear an easy-to-spot bracelet with his name on it and that after the assassination he opted to continue wearing it. This is not only mysterious but unfathomable. Why in the world would a presidential assassin behave in such an astonishingly foolish manner?
Second, the Warren Report says that when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested he had in his left hip pocket a wallet, which Dallas police seized while he was a prisoner in a police car transporting him to headquarters. In this wallet were valid identification documents in his name as well as two phony identification documents in the name of Alek James Hidell, a fictional person made up by Oswald. The Hidell name was allegedly an alias sometimes used by Oswald. The Report also says that an Italian carbine used to shoot JFK had been ordered by mail by a person who gave his name as “A. Hidell.”
If, therefore, the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the sole assassin, then this means that Oswald set out to murder the President of the United States while carrying a wallet bearing false identification in the name of the fictional person he had invented and utilized to procure the murder weapon. Once again, a presidential assassin is acting mysteriously and unfathomably.
f Oswald had ordered the rifle he allegedly used to assassinate the President under the name Hidell,” JFK assassination researcher Hasan Yusuf sensibly asks, “why would he be carrying in his wallet a fake card with a photograph of him (and with the name Hidell on it) on the day of the assassination, when the only purpose it served was to incriminate him?”
Third, the Warren Report says that Lee Harvey Oswald used the Hidell alias to order both a carbine with which he assassinated JFK and a pistol with which he murdered Dallas police officer J. D. Tippit (who was shot after stepping out of his patrol car on a Dallas street around 45 minutes after the presidential assassination), and that when he purchased them Oswald had both weapons delivered to a post office box that he had rented in his own name. Once again, a presidential assassin is behaving mysteriously and unfathomably.
As JFK assassination blogger Bert J. Paulson comments: “The idea that Oswald would order the rifle and the revolver under the Hidell name, but have them delivered to his Post Office box under his real name, is truly absurd and bizarre. Now, obviously, the purpose of using an alias is to conceal the fact that he had purchased the weapons. So why in God’s name would he have them delivered to his P.O. box?”
The most likely answer to questions about why it appears that for no apparent reason Oswald left behind him a swath of incriminating evidence is that he was not the presidential assassin and did not kill police officer Tippit; that instead he was an innocent person being framed by conspirators who intended to make him to be the patsy for both crimes; and that his apparently incriminating behavior was actually an indication of a frame-up. The conspirators, or corrupt police in league with them, could, for example, have planted the false Hidell identification documents Dallas police said they found in Oswald’s arrest wallet.



https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1208&context=fac_pm

Thanks Charles, I see this all the time, for instance why would Oswald carry the Hidell ID in his wallet because it looks like this Professor with 40 years of teaching experience seems to be saying, "it doesn't make sense because I wouldn't do that" but is that how the real World works?
I watched a Youtube video recently and some young guy stabbed his girlfriend over 100 times and tried to get away with it but there was a trail of clues that led straight to him, like front door videos, traces of blood in his drains and his knife was missing from it's holder. Now one could ask why didn't he throw away the knife holder or why didn't he clean his drains more thoroughly but he didn't and he got busted, I reckon while high on adrenaline he had a hundred ideas of what he should do and probably did the obvious stuff like washing his clothes and hiding the knife but he simply forgot or never realized about other pieces of potential evidence. 
In Oswald's case on why he had the Hidell ID in his wallet, that could equally be explained in numerous ways, like he simply forgot it was there or if he remembered, he planned on using it in case if he was stopped by Police to essentially say that he wasn't Oswald but in fact Alek Hidell.
And another thought is he never cared because he never thought he would get away with it and expected to be killed by cops, and this can be seen in the very first Commission exhibit, the Walker note which says "11. If I am alive and taken Prisoner..." which indicates that he was fully prepared to commit suicide by cop.

JohnM

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2023, 04:09:47 AM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2023, 05:07:42 AM »
Which “Richard” never seems to be able to specify. Beyond his usual list of unsubstantiated claims.

Maybe and this is just 1 example, perhaps Richard is first waiting for you to substantiate your belief that Oswald's rifle(LOL) was not Oswald's rifle(LOL)??

Kleins microfilm records which were verified by Waldman, show that A J Hidell sent an envelope and coupon wanting an Italian Carcano
Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box
Shortly thereafter Oswald was photographed with the exact type and size of Italian Carcano that matched the Italian Carcano in the Backyard photo and which later the HSCA confirmed the rifle were the exact same because of you know "moon craters" etc.
Why was the blanket which contained Oswald rifle(LOL) was empty when searched on the afternoon of the 22nd?
Why an Italian Carcano with the serial number C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's work?
Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had attached the 3 same types of thread which made up the shirt which Oswald was arrested in, the prohibitive probability is that they came from the same source.
Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had his palmprint as confirmed by Lt Day and later verified by the FBI that the print came from Oswald's rifle(LOL) meaning that Oswald himself touched the rifle
Why Oswald told his interrogators a different story than what Oswald told Frazier about the contents of his long brown package.
And then and most importantly for your credibility, in detail can you explain how and who co-ordinated this massive charade which involved multiple unconnected participants?

Waiting.....

JohnM

« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 05:11:51 AM by John Mytton »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2023, 09:15:44 AM »
Thanks Charles, I see this all the time, for instance why would Oswald carry the Hidell ID in his wallet because it looks like this Professor with 40 years of teaching experience seems to be saying, "it doesn't make sense because I wouldn't do that" but is that how the real World works?
I watched a Youtube video recently and some young guy stabbed his girlfriend over 100 times and tried to get away with it but there was a trail of clues that led straight to him, like front door videos, traces of blood in his drains and his knife was missing from it's holder. Now one could ask why didn't he throw away the knife holder or why didn't he clean his drains more thoroughly but he didn't and he got busted, I reckon while high on adrenaline he had a hundred ideas of what he should do and probably did the obvious stuff like washing his clothes and hiding the knife but he simply forgot or never realized about other pieces of potential evidence. 
In Oswald's case on why he had the Hidell ID in his wallet, that could equally be explained in numerous ways, like he simply forgot it was there or if he remembered, he planned on using it in case if he was stopped by Police to essentially say that he wasn't Oswald but in fact Alek Hidell.
And another thought is he never cared because he never thought he would get away with it and expected to be killed by cops, and this can be seen in the very first Commission exhibit, the Walker note which says "11. If I am alive and taken Prisoner..." which indicates that he was fully prepared to commit suicide by cop.

JohnM


which indicates that he was fully prepared to commit suicide by cop.

Another indication would be pulling out his revolver under the circumstances that he found himself in at the Texas Theater. If he wanted to “go out in a blaze of glory,” Jack Ruby unwittingly gave him his wish and much more (including a national TV audience)…
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 09:31:13 AM by Charles Collins »

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2023, 09:15:44 AM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2023, 04:04:04 PM »

…maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.

Here’s a twist from the late Donald E. Wilkes, a CTer that apparently, and inexplicably, believed all the incriminating evidence somehow means LHO was framed.  ::)

One of the mysteries that still surrounds Oswald is why, assuming he was the presidential assassin, he appears to have left behind him, in the words of Melanson, “a trail that any correspondence school gum-shoe could follow... a trail of self-implicating evidence...”
Here are just three examples of Oswald unnecessarily engaging in conduct that either strongly suggested he was guilty of assassinating JFK or made it extremely easy for others to identify him on the day of the assassination. Each example raises the same question: For what possible reason would a presidential assassin act so indescribably doltishly?
First, although it is a little-known fact, Warren Commission documents prove beyond doubt that at the time of his arrest less than two hours after the assassination Oswald was wearing on his left wrist a shiny sterling silver identification bracelet with his name on it! A taxi driver who drove Oswald after the assassination and who happened to make and collect identification bracelets, was deposed by Warren Commission staff and testified about seeing the bracelet when Oswald sat next to him in the cab, and in his deposition a Dallas policeman testified that at the police station he removed from Oswald’s wrist a bracelet with Oswald’s name on it. Therefore, if the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the single assassin, then this means that when Oswald set out to murder an American president he opted to wear an easy-to-spot bracelet with his name on it and that after the assassination he opted to continue wearing it. This is not only mysterious but unfathomable. Why in the world would a presidential assassin behave in such an astonishingly foolish manner?
Second, the Warren Report says that when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested he had in his left hip pocket a wallet, which Dallas police seized while he was a prisoner in a police car transporting him to headquarters. In this wallet were valid identification documents in his name as well as two phony identification documents in the name of Alek James Hidell, a fictional person made up by Oswald. The Hidell name was allegedly an alias sometimes used by Oswald. The Report also says that an Italian carbine used to shoot JFK had been ordered by mail by a person who gave his name as “A. Hidell.”
If, therefore, the Warren Commission was right in proclaiming Oswald to be the sole assassin, then this means that Oswald set out to murder the President of the United States while carrying a wallet bearing false identification in the name of the fictional person he had invented and utilized to procure the murder weapon. Once again, a presidential assassin is acting mysteriously and unfathomably.
f Oswald had ordered the rifle he allegedly used to assassinate the President under the name Hidell,” JFK assassination researcher Hasan Yusuf sensibly asks, “why would he be carrying in his wallet a fake card with a photograph of him (and with the name Hidell on it) on the day of the assassination, when the only purpose it served was to incriminate him?”
Third, the Warren Report says that Lee Harvey Oswald used the Hidell alias to order both a carbine with which he assassinated JFK and a pistol with which he murdered Dallas police officer J. D. Tippit (who was shot after stepping out of his patrol car on a Dallas street around 45 minutes after the presidential assassination), and that when he purchased them Oswald had both weapons delivered to a post office box that he had rented in his own name. Once again, a presidential assassin is behaving mysteriously and unfathomably.
As JFK assassination blogger Bert J. Paulson comments: “The idea that Oswald would order the rifle and the revolver under the Hidell name, but have them delivered to his Post Office box under his real name, is truly absurd and bizarre. Now, obviously, the purpose of using an alias is to conceal the fact that he had purchased the weapons. So why in God’s name would he have them delivered to his P.O. box?”
The most likely answer to questions about why it appears that for no apparent reason Oswald left behind him a swath of incriminating evidence is that he was not the presidential assassin and did not kill police officer Tippit; that instead he was an innocent person being framed by conspirators who intended to make him to be the patsy for both crimes; and that his apparently incriminating behavior was actually an indication of a frame-up. The conspirators, or corrupt police in league with them, could, for example, have planted the false Hidell identification documents Dallas police said they found in Oswald’s arrest wallet.



https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1208&context=fac_pm

It's the old "he left so much evidence of his guilt, that we can only conclude he was innocent" argument to paraphrase Maxwell Smart.  Completely absurd. 

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2023, 04:36:29 PM »
There was no obligation for the federal government to investigate this case.  The DPD was satisfied of Oswald's guilt based upon the evidence that had been obtained.  If the highest levels of the US government were involved in the assassination, framing of Oswald, and cover up, then the very last thing they would have done is to initiate a voluntary investigation into the matter.  That would be absurd.  The WC did an outstanding job.  If CTer loons want to believe that they didn't keep an open mind and had a preconceived conclusion, maybe they should blame Oswald for leaving so much evidence of his guilt.  If the WC was biased toward Oswald, it was because the evidence demonstrates that he was stone cold guilty of this crime.  There is no doubt.

There is no doubt.

Really? If that is true, why can't you answer most, if not all, the questions you've been asked in the past?


"The evidence that Oswald came down the stairs after the last shot is.... that it happened - "Richard Smith"    :D :D :D :D

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2023, 04:36:29 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: One of the most important books in this case is free and online!
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2023, 06:53:40 PM »
Maybe and this is just 1 example, perhaps Richard is first waiting for you to substantiate your belief that Oswald's rifle(LOL) was not Oswald's rifle(LOL)??

Kleins microfilm records which were verified by Waldman, show that A J Hidell sent an envelope and coupon wanting an Italian Carcano
Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box
Shortly thereafter Oswald was photographed with the exact type and size of Italian Carcano that matched the Italian Carcano in the Backyard photo and which later the HSCA confirmed the rifle were the exact same because of you know "moon craters" etc.
Why was the blanket which contained Oswald rifle(LOL) was empty when searched on the afternoon of the 22nd?
Why an Italian Carcano with the serial number C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's work?
Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had attached the 3 same types of thread which made up the shirt which Oswald was arrested in, the prohibitive probability is that they came from the same source.
Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had his palmprint as confirmed by Lt Day and later verified by the FBI that the print came from Oswald's rifle(LOL) meaning that Oswald himself touched the rifle
Why Oswald told his interrogators a different story than what Oswald told Frazier about the contents of his long brown package.
And then and most importantly for your credibility, in detail can you explain how and who co-ordinated this massive charade which involved multiple unconnected participants?

Waiting.....

JohnM

Maybe and this is just 1 example, perhaps Richard is first waiting for you to substantiate your belief that Oswald's rifle(LOL) was not Oswald's rifle(LOL)??

Classic LN BS, wanting somebody to prove a negative.

Kleins microfilm records which were verified by Waldman, show that A J Hidell sent an envelope and coupon wanting an Italian Carcano

Yes, that's what the photocopies of the microfilm (that's now lost) show.

Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box

There is no evidence for this. Waldmann claimed that the letters "PP" on one of the documents mean it had been sent but that's hardly conclusive

Shortly thereafter Oswald was photographed with the exact type and size of Italian Carcano that matched the Italian Carcano in the Backyard photo

Of course, if he was photographed with a particular rifle, that same rifle would actually show up in the photograph...   :D

Do the photograph(s) prove anything beyond Oswald was holding that rifle when the photo was taken? Nope.... they don't

and which later the HSCA confirmed the rifle were the exact same because of you know "moon craters" etc.

Photocopies and "moon craters".... and that's part of the "mountain of evidence"? Really?   :D :D :D :D

Why was the blanket which contained Oswald rifle(LOL) was empty when searched on the afternoon of the 22nd?

Easy. Because there was nothing in it. And since nobody paid any attention to that blanket since late September '63, it could have been empty for quite a while.

Why an Italian Carcano with the serial number C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's work?

Because somebody left it there

Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had attached the 3 same types of thread which made up the shirt which Oswald was arrested in, the prohibitive probability is that they came from the same source.

That's actually a good question, as it was never established that Oswald, that morning, was wearing the shirt he was arrested in.

Why Oswald's rifle(LOL) had his palmprint as confirmed by Lt Day and later verified by the FBI that the print came from Oswald's rifle(LOL) meaning that Oswald himself touched the rifle


Oswald's palmprint didn't show up until about a week after the murder when Lt Day produced an evidence card with that print on in. The FBI examined the rifle during the night after the murder and could not even find a trace of a print or any evidence that a print had been lifted.

Why Oswald told his interrogators a different story than what Oswald told Frazier about the contents of his long brown package.

Did he?

in detail can you explain how and who co-ordinated this massive charade which involved multiple unconnected participants?

LOL Do you want their addresses and social security numbers as ?

Here's an idea, why don't you connect the points you have raised without merely making highly speculative leaps of faith and provide the evidence that connect the dots as well?