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Author Topic: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?  (Read 36697 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2023, 03:30:44 AM »
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The shooter fired at least 4 shots, so heís got 2 left in the drum.

So is there a way to keep the  thumb over the 2 live rounds when the drum is swung open , (so they donít fall out ), while shaking out the 4 spent shells?

If so, then IDK why the shooter would take one shell out at a time , since he could theoretically dump all  4 spent shells in one quick shake while still holding the 2 live shells in chamber with his thumb.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2023, 04:01:57 PM »
The shooter fired at least 4 shots, so heís got 2 left in the drum.

So is there a way to keep the  thumb over the 2 live rounds when the drum is swung open , (so they donít fall out ), while shaking out the 4 spent shells?

If so, then IDK why the shooter would take one shell out at a time , since he could theoretically dump all  4 spent shells in one quick shake while still holding the 2 live shells in chamber with his thumb.

The shooter fired at least 4 shots, so heís got 2 left in the drum.

I've pointed out that the witnesses said that shooter was NOT using a S&W.......They described the unloading of the spent shells ...ONE SHELL AT A TIME....

IDK why the shooter would take one shell out at a time ,

Yes, that's a good observation....   IF ...   IF  I ask...If the man was using a S&W revolver why would he want to remove one shell at a time as the witnesses saw him do?

The answer is..... The man was NOT using a S&W.   And he was not Lee Oswald.

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2023, 05:24:19 PM »
OK genius.... IF the man was using a S&W,   WHY would he swing the cylinder out of the frame and the push the extractor rod and only remove a single cartridge??     Incidentally, ... The witness said that the fleeing gunman  was holding the gun in his hand with the barrel pointing up and shaking it to facilitate the removal of the spent shells as he removed ONE SHELL AT A TIME.
Did he just remove a single cartridge, or did he remove them individually rather than dumping out the whole lot at once?


Incidentally, ... The witness said that the fleeing gunman  was holding the gun in his hand with the barrel pointing up and shaking it to facilitate the removal of the spent shells as he removed ONE SHELL AT A TIME.
Which witness was this, Walt, and exactly where did they say it?

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2023, 05:24:19 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2023, 09:06:31 PM »
Did he just remove a single cartridge, or did he remove them individually rather than dumping out the whole lot at once?

Which witness was this, Walt, and exactly where did they say it?

Which witness was this, Walt, and exactly where did they say it?

The witnesses who reported seeing the man pointing the barrel up and shaking the pistol, and discarding the shells were the Davis girls.  Domingo Benavides described the man that he saw shoot Tippit as walking away and tossing a shell ( ONE SHELL)in the bush as he walked away.  The spent shells that were recovered at he scene Were found scattered about, and not in a cluster as would be expected if they had been extracted from a S&W.




Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2023, 09:43:30 PM »
The fact is, the ejectors on S&W revolvers are completely under the user's control. You can eject fast and hard, or slight and slow as you so desire. Doing the latter will allow you to remove cartridge cases individually from the cylinder, a good idea if you don't know how many rounds you just fired and don't want to throw out the unfired cartridges along with the spent cases.


Duh!!....When using a S&W revolver all cartridges ( both spent and unfired) are ejected at once.  If the shooter has fired four shells he simply dumps all shells into his hand, and then he can place the two live rounds back in the cylinder and replace the four spent rounds that he has discarded four with live cartridges.

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2023, 09:43:30 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2023, 05:54:56 PM »

Duh!!....When using a S&W revolver all cartridges ( both spent and unfired) are ejected at once.  If the shooter has fired four shells he simply dumps all shells into his hand, and then he can place the two live rounds back in the cylinder and replace the four spent rounds that he has discarded four with live cartridges.
Try this:
While holding a revolver in one hand:

   Dump a selection of unfired and fired cartridges into your other hand

   Sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff using only the other hand (remembering that hand#1 is preoccupied with holding a pistol)

   Reload the unfired cartridges into the cylinder of the pistol

   Dump the fired, empty cases

Do all of this while on the move, and without letting go of the pistol.

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2023, 09:26:31 PM »
Which witness was this, Walt, and exactly where did they say it?

The witnesses who reported seeing the man pointing the barrel up and shaking the pistol, and discarding the shells were the Davis girls.  Domingo Benavides described the man that he saw shoot Tippit as walking away and tossing a shell ( ONE SHELL)in the bush as he walked away.  The spent shells that were recovered at he scene Were found scattered about, and not in a cluster as would be expected if they had been extracted from a S&W.
So it's not one witness, as advertised, but a combination of the testimony of three different ones. Good to know.

Anyway, Benavides saw the gunman remove and throw two cases, not one. Then again, he remembered that he heard three shots, when there must have been at least four, so his counting may be off.

The shaking described by the Davis girls doesn't solve your problem. Their description implies two different possibilities to me:

First is that the Davises saw the guy doing what might be called the 'combat crane close.' This maneuver involves closing the cylinder by abruptly rotating the wrist of the hand holding the pistol. If you remember old-school cop and detective shows, you've seen some actor do it at least once. Sometimes, the cylinder doesn't engage the frame and bounces back, requiring a second or even a third shake to get the thing closed.

Second is where the rim of one or more cases slips past the ejector star and fall back into their chamber. If that happens, one easy way to get them out is to shake them out. In any case, if you are having to shake the cases out of a revolver, the ejector isn't doing the job and the cases aren't coming out normally. Oswald's pistol was originally chambered in .38 S&W, but the chamber was rebored to fire .38 Special. .38 S&W is slightly larger diameter than .38 special. The modification of the LHO pistol can cause .38SPL cases to permanently swell or even split during firing, which would definitely make it harder to unload normally. And it's a situation liable to cause someone to pick out cases onesey-twosey.

BTW, I don't see either of the Davis girls saying that the shooter was pointing the barrel upwards when he shook the gun. 












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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2023, 09:26:31 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2023, 04:19:36 AM »
So it's not one witness, as advertised, but a combination of the testimony of three different ones. Good to know.

Anyway, Benavides saw the gunman remove and throw two cases, not one. Then again, he remembered that he heard three shots, when there must have been at least four, so his counting may be off.

The shaking described by the Davis girls doesn't solve your problem. Their description implies two different possibilities to me:

First is that the Davises saw the guy doing what might be called the 'combat crane close.' This maneuver involves closing the cylinder by abruptly rotating the wrist of the hand holding the pistol. If you remember old-school cop and detective shows, you've seen some actor do it at least once. Sometimes, the cylinder doesn't engage the frame and bounces back, requiring a second or even a third shake to get the thing closed.

Second is where the rim of one or more cases slips past the ejector star and fall back into their chamber. If that happens, one easy way to get them out is to shake them out. In any case, if you are having to shake the cases out of a revolver, the ejector isn't doing the job and the cases aren't coming out normally. Oswald's pistol was originally chambered in .38 S&W, but the chamber was rebored to fire .38 Special. .38 S&W is slightly larger diameter than .38 special. The modification of the LHO pistol can cause .38SPL cases to permanently swell or even split during firing, which would definitely make it harder to unload normally. And it's a situation liable to cause someone to pick out cases onesey-twosey.

BTW, I don't see either of the Davis girls saying that the shooter was pointing the barrel upwards when he shook the gun.

You are the epitome LNer who will refuse to drink...... even after he's been lead to water......