Who Killed J.D. Tippit?

[Martin Weidmann]

Bentley didn't say that. In his report he just said he turned over "his information" (whatever that means) to Baker. You just assume he was talking about the wallet. That's beyond weak!

Bentley wrote: "I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest." "Identification" is, of course, much more specific than "information." "Turned over" implies a physical transfer. The only physical identification that Bentley could have turned over is what he took from Oswald, unless you want to conjure something out of the cold thin air of your imagination. And there was no reason for Bentley to have kept the wallet and it's remaining contents, unless you want to conjure something else out of the cold thin air of your imagination.

Bentley wrote: "I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest." "Identification" is, of course, much more specific than "information."

Bla bla bla... your desperate need to score a minor point is duly noted.

"Turned over" implies a physical transfer. The only physical identification that Bentley could have turned over is what he took from Oswald,

Sure, and what exactly did Bentley turn over? He said it himself; "his identification", meaning of course Oswald's. Not a word about Hidell. Now, isn't that strange? Not a word about there being ID's in two different names and not knowing which one is the correct name. Nothing, nada, zero.... 

none of this contradicts the possibility that the wallets were switched and that Rose was given the Tippit scene wallet

So, you're going to assert something you've imagined then demand that we prove you wrong?

I didn't imagine that FBI agent Barrett said there was a wallet at the Tippit scene and that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, did I? I also didn't imagine that Ron Reiland said it was a wallet (which he mistakenly believed belonged to Tippit), did I?

Did I imagine that none of the four officers who were with Oswald in the car said anything about a Hidell ID being in Oswald's wallet and that there is no DPD report that mentions finding such a vital piece of evidence?

Did I imagine that only Hill and Carroll made very vague comments about the Hidell ID in their WC testimony, some six months later, and that the WC didn't even call Bentley (the man who actually inspected the wallet) to testify about finding the Hidell ID? That would be the same Hill, btw, who also screwed up the chain of custody for the revolver, but that's another issue.

There is no evidentiary case to show that the Hidell ID was in the wallet Bentley took from Oswald, but there most certainly is a circumstantial case (not a very strong one, I'll grant you that) that there was indeed a wallet found at the Tippit scene which contained Oswald's ID and the fake Hidell ID.

So, given this, yes I do think you should at least try to prove me wrong with something a bit more than assumptions about what was in the wallet Bentley gave to Baker and when he gave it to him.

But beyond that, you are taking his word about what?

That he would have known what he did that day much better than you ever will.

Who? Oh you mean Bentley.... sure he knew better what he did that day than I do. He just failed miserably in communicating what he did and when he did it.

So the officer who found a vital and incriminating piece of evidence doesn't have to report that and doesn't have to be part of the chain of custody? Is that what you are foolishly trying to say?

In other words, you really are simply presuming what you think Bentley, et al, would have reported and how they would have reported it.

No, I'm simply saying that there are police procedures about how to handle evidence. There should at least be a conclusive chain of custody, starting with the person who actually found the item and there should be at least one report about the circumstances of the discovery. But wait, I just realized who I am talking to... now you are going to try to turn this into a pages long go nowhere discussion about police procedures, right? Well don't...because I am not going to go there.

You do understand that before they went to Fritz's office where you think Bentley turned over the wallet, they had already left Oswald with Rose and he (according to his testimony) had already been given a wallet by then. So even your silly timeline doesn't work!

By "Fritz' office," I was referring to the Robbery and Homicide Bureau suite at DPD HQ, within which was Fritz personal office. Rose and Baker both worked for Fritz and occupied desks within the suite.

Yes I do know that. It makes no difference. Your quote from Bentley's report made it clear that he turned over "his identification" to Lt. Baker and then he went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest. In other words, he gave the "identification" to Baker when he left the Homicide bureau, where Gus Rose, at that time, was already talking to Oswald!

[Martin Weidmann]

Let's make this easy...

Show me the actual evidence (so not opinions or assumptions) that the fake Hidell ID was in the wallet that Bentley took from Oswald in the car on the way to the police station, and I'll shut up about the Tippit scene wallet and how they were possibly switched.

C'mon LNs...

[John Mytton]

The evidence that Oswald at various times was questioned about the Hidell Identification that Oswald had on his person is beyond all doubt.

We have The Chief of Police, The Captain of the Dallas Police Department, US Postal Inspector, A Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Dallas Police officers who all testified that Oswald was questioned about the Hidell Identification.

Mr. STERN - What sort of question would he refuse to answer? Was there any pattern to his refusing?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Well, now, I am not certain whether this would apply then to this particular interview, the first interview or not, in answering this, but I recall specifically one of the interviews asking him about the Selective Service card which he had in the name of Hidell, and he admitted that he was carrying the card, but that he would not admit that he wrote the signature of Hidell on the card, and at that point stated that he refused to discuss the matter further. I think generally you might say anytime that you asked a question that would be pertinent to the investigation, that would be the type of question he would refuse to discuss.

Mr. BELIN. All right, what else?
Mr. HOLMES. In his billfold the police had found a draft registration card in the name of A. J. Hidell on his person at the time of his arrest, and I had seen it.
......
Mr. BELIN. Was anything in that room--was he asked about knowing Alek Hidell? Or anything about Alek Hidell?
Mr. HOLMES. I brought it up first as to did he ever have a package sent to him from anywhere. I said, "Did you receive mail through this box 2915 under the name of any other name than Lee Oswald," and he said, "Absolutely not."
"What about a package to an A. J. Hidell?"
He said, "No."
"Well, did you order a gun in that name to come there?"
"No, absolutely not."
"Had one come under that name, could this fellow have gotten it?"
He said, "Nobody got mail out of that box but me; no, sir." "Maybe my wife, but I couldn't say for sure whether my wife ever got mail, but it is possible she could have."
"Well, who is A. J. Hidell?" I asked him.
And he said, "I don't know any such person."
I showed him the box rental application for the post office box in New Orleans and I read from it. I said, "Here this shows as being able to receive, being entitled to receive mail is Marina Oswald." And he said, "Well, that is my wife, so what?"
And I said also it says "A. J. Hidell."
"Well, I don't know anything about that."
That is all he would say about it.
Then Captain Fritz interrupted and said, "Well, what about this card we got out of your billfold? This draft registration card, he called it, where it showed A. J. Hidell."
"Well, that is the only time that I recall he kind of flared up and he said, "Now, I have told you all I am going to tell you about that card in my billfold." He said, "You have the card yourself, and you know as much about it as I do." And he showed a little anger. Really the only time that he flared up.

Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell?
Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or something.

Mr. LEAVELLE. Since you mentioned it, I do remember them talking to him about the New Orleans box and asking him about this other name, this----
Mr. BALL. Alek Hidell?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes; and he asked him if he knew Alek Hidell; said he didn't know if he ever heard of the name. He never heard of that and asked him several questions along that line and then after he had denied all knowledge of Alek Hidell, Mr. Kelley asked him, said "Well, isn't it a fact when you were arrested you had an identification card with his name on it in your possession." He kind of grunted, said "Yes, that's right" and he said "How do you explain that?" And, as best my knowledge. he said "I don't explain it."

Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald?
Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out." And then in just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he told me to get two men and go to Irving and search his house.

Mr. DULLES - Could I ask a question? What was Oswald's attitude toward the police? Have you any comment on that?
Mr. CURRY - The only things I heard him say, he was very arrogant. He was very--he had a dislike for authority, it seemed, of anyone. He denied anything you asked him. I heard them ask once or twice if this was his picture or something, he said, "I don't know what you are talking about. No; it is not my picture," and this was a picture of him holding a rifle or something. I remember one time they showed him and he denied that being him.
I remember he denied anything knowing anything about a man named Hidell that he had this identification in his pocket or in his notebook, and I believe a postal inspector was in this room at the time, too, and someone asked him about the fact that he had a post office box in the name of Hidell and he didn't know anything about that. He just didn't know anything about anything.



JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

The evidence that Oswald at various times was questioned about the Hidell Identification that Oswald had on his person is beyond all doubt.

We have The Chief of Police, The Captain of the Dallas Police Department, US Postal Inspector, A Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Dallas Police officers who all testified that Oswald was questioned about the Hidell Identification.

Mr. STERN - What sort of question would he refuse to answer? Was there any pattern to his refusing?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Well, now, I am not certain whether this would apply then to this particular interview, the first interview or not, in answering this, but I recall specifically one of the interviews asking him about the Selective Service card which he had in the name of Hidell, and he admitted that he was carrying the card, but that he would not admit that he wrote the signature of Hidell on the card, and at that point stated that he refused to discuss the matter further. I think generally you might say anytime that you asked a question that would be pertinent to the investigation, that would be the type of question he would refuse to discuss.

Mr. BELIN. All right, what else?
Mr. HOLMES. In his billfold the police had found a draft registration card in the name of A. J. Hidell on his person at the time of his arrest, and I had seen it.
......
Mr. BELIN. Was anything in that room--was he asked about knowing Alek Hidell? Or anything about Alek Hidell?
Mr. HOLMES. I brought it up first as to did he ever have a package sent to him from anywhere. I said, "Did you receive mail through this box 2915 under the name of any other name than Lee Oswald," and he said, "Absolutely not."
"What about a package to an A. J. Hidell?"
He said, "No."
"Well, did you order a gun in that name to come there?"
"No, absolutely not."
"Had one come under that name, could this fellow have gotten it?"
He said, "Nobody got mail out of that box but me; no, sir." "Maybe my wife, but I couldn't say for sure whether my wife ever got mail, but it is possible she could have."
"Well, who is A. J. Hidell?" I asked him.
And he said, "I don't know any such person."
I showed him the box rental application for the post office box in New Orleans and I read from it. I said, "Here this shows as being able to receive, being entitled to receive mail is Marina Oswald." And he said, "Well, that is my wife, so what?"
And I said also it says "A. J. Hidell."
"Well, I don't know anything about that."
That is all he would say about it.
Then Captain Fritz interrupted and said, "Well, what about this card we got out of your billfold? This draft registration card, he called it, where it showed A. J. Hidell."
"Well, that is the only time that I recall he kind of flared up and he said, "Now, I have told you all I am going to tell you about that card in my billfold." He said, "You have the card yourself, and you know as much about it as I do." And he showed a little anger. Really the only time that he flared up.

Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell?
Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or something.

Mr. LEAVELLE. Since you mentioned it, I do remember them talking to him about the New Orleans box and asking him about this other name, this----
Mr. BALL. Alek Hidell?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes; and he asked him if he knew Alek Hidell; said he didn't know if he ever heard of the name. He never heard of that and asked him several questions along that line and then after he had denied all knowledge of Alek Hidell, Mr. Kelley asked him, said "Well, isn't it a fact when you were arrested you had an identification card with his name on it in your possession." He kind of grunted, said "Yes, that's right" and he said "How do you explain that?" And, as best my knowledge. he said "I don't explain it."

Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald?
Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out." And then in just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he told me to get two men and go to Irving and search his house.

Mr. DULLES - Could I ask a question? What was Oswald's attitude toward the police? Have you any comment on that?
Mr. CURRY - The only things I heard him say, he was very arrogant. He was very--he had a dislike for authority, it seemed, of anyone. He denied anything you asked him. I heard them ask once or twice if this was his picture or something, he said, "I don't know what you are talking about. No; it is not my picture," and this was a picture of him holding a rifle or something. I remember one time they showed him and he denied that being him.
I remember he denied anything knowing anything about a man named Hidell that he had this identification in his pocket or in his notebook, and I believe a postal inspector was in this room at the time, too, and someone asked him about the fact that he had a post office box in the name of Hidell and he didn't know anything about that. He just didn't know anything about anything.



JohnM

The evidence that Oswald at various times was questioned about the Hidell Identification that Oswald had on his person is beyond all doubt.

Irrelevant. The fake Hidell ID exists and, yes, Oswald was asked about it, but that doesn't answer my question.

[Richard Smith]

The evidence that Oswald at various times was questioned about the Hidell Identification that Oswald had on his person is beyond all doubt.

Irrelevant. The fake Hidell ID exists and, yes, Oswald was asked about it, but that doesn't answer my question.

Time machine?

[Martin Weidmann]

Time machine?

And that's number two who is unable to answer my question.

[John Iacoletti]

Several cops told the same story months later. It must be true. 

[John Mytton]

Several cops told the same story months later. It must be true. 

Not only "cops" but also an FBI agent and a Postal inspector, did they all get together beforehand to get their extensive testimonials straight? Don't you honestly find that completely absurd, but I guess whatever it takes hey John?

And let's look at what we learnt from the "months later" testimonies from the guys who were trying to frame the long dead Oswald;

Oswald denied owning a rifle
Oswald denied being in the backyard photos
Oswald denied admitting to Frazier that he went to Irving for curtain rods
Oswald said he bought a revolver in Fort Worth.
Oswald denied putting a long package on the back seat of Frazier's car.
Oswald said that he only had his lunch with him that morning.
Oswald said he was having lunch at the time.

Geez John, "months later" the narrative was well established yet these guys collaborated to say the above??? LMFAO!

JohnM