Who Killed J.D. Tippit?

[Mitch Todd]

Another word salad typical for Mitch Todd and still nothing new added. It's just a repeat of the same arguments. I am not going to waste my time with a reply, except for this, which you conveniently ignored.

You claimed that Bentley still had the wallet when he went to the Homicide bureau and personnel division office to write reports before giving the wallet to TL Baker.

Gus Rose arrived at the police station shortly before Oswald was brought in. He was the first officer to talk to Oswald and he was given a wallet just before that.

There is no way that could have been the wallet that Bentley had!

This alone destroys most of your long winded arguments, which is, of course, exactly why you ignored it!

This is what Bentley says about his return to Dallas City Hall:

"I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

"I then was told by Inspector Kockos to go to Baylor Hospital to receive treatment for the injured feet I received in making the arrest."

So, Bentley dropped off the ID when Oswald was dropped off in the Homicide office, and before following Hill and Carroll to the Personnel Office. I was a bit wrong in the exact sequence, but compare this to your original assertion that Bentley was whisked off to the hospital as soon as he arrived at City Hall.

Of course, this wrecks your arguments.

[Mitch Todd]

You do understand that you've confirmed that Croy and Reiland agreed with Barrett's statement that their was a wallet found at the Tippit scene, right?

The fact that Croy did not mention the Oswald and Hidell ID's doesn't negate that. Reiland saying that it was Tippit's wallet (which we know from Marie Tippit) it wasn't also does not mean there was no wallet.

So, now we have three people who confirm the presence of a wallet at the Tippit scene.

I didn't say it wasn't a wallet

Who says that Westbrook didn't ask the bystanders if somebody had lost a wallet? No need to name any names. In fact, it would be wise to withhold the names just in case somebody came forward. He could ask that person for his name and check with the content of the wallet.

As for informing the dispatcher, they didn't even bother to put a description of the killer on the radio, which would have been a lot more effective than broadcasting a name. So, that's a moot point.

This was broadcast at 1:34 on channel one:

221 [HW Summers]: Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair-complected. Wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.

[Martin Weidmann]

This is what Bentley says about his return to Dallas City Hall:

"I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

"I then was told by Inspector Kockos to go to Baylor Hospital to receive treatment for the injured feet I received in making the arrest."

So, Bentley dropped off the ID when Oswald was dropped off in the Homicide office, and before following Hill and Carroll to the Personnel Office. I was a bit wrong in the exact sequence, but compare this to your original assertion that Bentley was whisked off to the hospital as soon as he arrived at City Hall.

Of course, this wrecks your arguments.

And where and when did Bentley say that?

Your first version of the sequence of events didn't work and now you come with a new version. What you don't produce is evidence for your claims. It's about time you show us what Bentley actually said.

I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker.

What identification would that be? The Oswald one or the fake Hidell ID?

I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

Where is the report that Bentley wrote in Westbrook's office?

Of course, this wrecks your arguments.

Let's just wait and see what you produce to substantiate your claims.

I didn't say it wasn't a wallet

So, were in agreement that it was indeed a wallet? Good... that's progress.

This was broadcast at 1:34 on channel one:

221 [HW Summers]: Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair-complected. Wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.

Was Summers anywhere near Westbrook when he called that in?

[John Iacoletti]

Dale Myers interviewed Croy several years before Rookstool, and Myers says that Croy never mentioned anything about finding Oswald or Hidell IDs. So, did Croy know on 11/22 that the wallet was Oswald's? Or did Rookstool present his matching-wallet-flap spiel to an aged Croy who simply went with what he was presented

Ah, the infamous “aged” excuse, like the one used for Bardwell Odum and CE399.

Or maybe Myers is just a lousy and/or dishonest interviewer.

[Walt Cakebread]

Ah, the infamous “aged” excuse, like the one used for Bardwell Odum and CE399.

Or maybe Myers is just a lousy and/or dishonest interviewer.

Early in this thread the discussion was about the witnesses reports about seeing the killer leaving the scene of Tippit's murder.    I knew that discussion would be derailed....because nobody wants to face the fact that Tippit's killer was using a different type revolver than the S&W allegedly taken from Lee Oswald in the theater.

[Mitch Todd]

And where and when did Bentley say that?

Your first version of the sequence of events didn't work and now you come with a new version. What you don't produce is evidence for your claims. It's about time you show us what Bentley actually said.

it's in CE2003. I've already quoted the appropriate part. Now, why don't you show us where you got the idea that "Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person"??

I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker.

What identification would that be? The Oswald one or the fake Hidell ID?

He didn't specify. You don't understand what he wrote?

I then went to Captain Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

Where is the report that Bentley wrote in Westbrook's office?

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190315/?q=Oswald%20arrest%20report

Of course, this wrecks your arguments.

Let's just wait and see what you produce to substantiate your claims.

I'm the guy who's been substantiating them. Something that you've consistently failed to do.

So, were in agreement that it was indeed a wallet? Good... that's progress.

What are you talking about? I never claimed that it wasn't a wallet.

Was Summers anywhere near Westbrook when he called that in?

Why does it matter? You claimed that the Tippit suspect's description wasn't broadcast. I showed you where they did. Now you want to change the subject.

[Martin Weidmann]

it's in CE2003. I've already quoted the appropriate part. Now, why don't you show us where you got the idea that "Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person"??
 
He didn't specify. You don't understand what he wrote?
 
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190315/?q=Oswald%20arrest%20report
 
I'm the guy who's been substantiating them. Something that you've consistently failed to do.
 
What are you talking about? I never claimed that it wasn't a wallet.
Why does it matter? You claimed that the Tippit suspect's description wasn't broadcast. I showed you where they did. Now you want to change the subject.

it's in CE2003.

Really? I just had a look at the index and I can't find Bentley's name in the list of affidavits. The document consists of 210 pages, so you are going to have to be a bit less evasive and tell me what page I need to look at.

I've already quoted the appropriate part.

Then it should be easy for you to point out where I can find that part, right? Or do you want me to just take your word for it?

Now, why don't you show us where you got the idea that "Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person"??

Because that's how I remembered it. This is what I actually said;

Gus Rose was given a wallet, by an unidentified officer, who told him it was Oswald's, just like what happened with the jacket (Go figure!). And low and behold in that wallet there was this fake Hidell ID with Oswald's photo. IIRC Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person.

You do understand what "IIRC" means, right?

He didn't specify. You don't understand what he wrote?
 
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190315/?q=Oswald%20arrest%20report

Understand what? What you are showing me is a report by four DPD officers, including Bentley, about the arrest of Oswald, not only as Tippit's killer but also Kennedy's. It isn't worth the paper it's written on as it only provides opinions of officers who were in no position to make any such determination. The only thing it does tell us is that those four officers identified the man they arrested as Lee Harvey Oswald, because that's what's on the form. Now, this may be a bit complicated for you to understand, but if the wallet Bentley took from Oswald also contained a Hidell ID, why did they just write Oswald's name on the form and not mention the Hidell one at all?

What the document most certainly does not say is anything about the wallet Bentley took from Oswald and it's contents. And as for your casual remark "he didn't specify"; he absolutely didn't specify anything at all. If the wallet that Bentley took from Oswald contained a fake Hidell ID, don't you think that should have been mentioned in the report. Even more so, as it happens to be a fake ID in the same name that was used for ordering the rifle and the revolver. You are trying to make a big deal about the Tippit scene wallet, by suggesting it didn't contain the Oswald and Hidell ID just because those names were not broadcast on DPD radio, yet here you claim that the wallet Bentley took from Oswald contained the Hidell ID and you have no problem with that fake ID not being mentioned in any DPD report. Do you understand just how pathetic that is?

I'm the guy who's been substantiating them. Something that you've consistently failed to do.

So far, you haven't substantiated anything. It's the same game plan with you like before.... long winding arguments that go no where and playing games about where to find the evidence. I'm already getting tired of your games again.

Why does it matter? You claimed that the Tippit suspect's description wasn't broadcast. I showed you where they did. Now you want to change the subject.

Not at all. I looked into it and you are right. They did broadcast it. I missed that, which can happen when you write from memory, as I often do. Given the details provided, the source for the information was most likely Callaway.

Here is why it matters; by the time Summers made the broadcast they were already closing in on the library and Westbrook had already left the Tippit scene. How do I know this? Easy; it was Westbrook who was present at the parking lot where the jacket was found and the discovery of the jacket was reported to the dispatcher before Summers gave the description. But truth be told, the first description was broadcast by Patrolman Walker at around 1:22 PM. But even that was only two minutes before the discovery of the jacket was reported, so even at that time Westbrook wasn't at the Tippit scene anymore.

The fact is that Walker and/or Summers could not have gotten a name from Westbrook to broadcast. And that's exactly the point. You claimed that they would have broadcast the name of the suspect, but Westbrook was the only one who could have provided the name(s) and he wasn't there anymore. It's easy to understand why neither officer was ever in a position to broadcast a name, which makes your entire argument meaningless.

[Bill Brown]

Two physical descriptions of the suspect were indeed put out over the police radio (and then repeated multiple times).
For the record, the first description put out over the police radio was made by Roy Walker who got his information from Warren Reynolds.
Howell Summers put out a description a little later.  He got his description from Ted Callaway.