Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage  (Read 11532 times)

Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« on: February 09, 2023, 12:43:12 AM »
Advertisement
Quote
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible.

There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

President Biden and his foreign policy team—National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, Secretary of State Tony Blinken, and Victoria Nuland, the Undersecretary of State for Policy—had been vocal and consistent in their hostility to the two pipelines, which ran side by side for 750 miles under the Baltic Sea from two different ports in northeastern Russia near the Estonian border, passing close to the Danish island of Bornholm before ending in northern Germany.

The direct route, which bypassed any need to transit Ukraine, had been a boon for the German economy, which enjoyed an abundance of cheap Russian natural gas—enough to run its factories and heat its homes while enabling German distributors to sell excess gas, at a profit, throughout Western Europe. Action that could be traced to the administration would violate US promises to minimize direct conflict with Russia. Secrecy was essential.

From its earliest days, Nord Stream 1 was seen by Washington and its anti-Russian NATO partners as a threat to western dominance. The holding company behind it, Nord Stream AG, was incorporated in Switzerland in 2005 in partnership with Gazprom, a publicly traded Russian company producing enormous profits for shareholders which is dominated by oligarchs known to be in the thrall of Putin. Gazprom controlled 51 percent of the company, with four European energy firms—one in France, one in the Netherlands and two in Germany—sharing the remaining 49 percent of stock, and having the right to control downstream sales of the inexpensive natural gas to local distributors in Germany and Western Europe. Gazprom’s profits were shared with the Russian government, and state gas and oil revenues were estimated in some years to amount to as much as 45 percent of Russia’s annual budget.

America’s political fears were real: Putin would now have an additional and much-needed major source of income, and Germany and the rest of Western Europe would become addicted to low-cost natural gas supplied by Russia—while diminishing European reliance on America. In fact, that’s exactly what happened. Many Germans saw Nord Stream 1 as part of the deliverance of former Chancellor Willy Brandt’s famed Ostpolitik theory, which would enable postwar Germany to rehabilitate itself and other European nations destroyed in World War II by, among other initiatives, utilizing cheap Russian gas to fuel a prosperous Western European market and trading economy.

Nord Stream 1 was dangerous enough, in the view of NATO and Washington, but Nord Stream 2, whose construction was completed in September of 2021, would, if approved by German regulators, double the amount of cheap gas that would be available to Germany and Western Europe. The second pipeline also would provide enough gas for more than 50 percent of Germany’s annual consumption. Tensions were constantly escalating between Russia and NATO, backed by the aggressive foreign policy of the Biden Administration.

Opposition to Nord Stream 2 flared on the eve of the Biden inauguration in January 2021, when Senate Republicans, led by Ted Cruz of Texas, repeatedly raised the political threat of cheap Russian natural gas during the confirmation hearing of Blinken as Secretary of State. By then a unified Senate had successfully passed a law that, as Cruz told Blinken, “halted [the pipeline] in its tracks.” There would be enormous political and economic pressure from the German government, then headed by Angela Merkel, to get the second pipeline online.

Would Biden stand up to the Germans? Blinken said yes, but added that he had not discussed the specifics of the incoming President’s views. “I know his strong conviction that this is a bad idea, the Nord Stream 2,” he said. “I know that he would have us use every persuasive tool that we have to convince our friends and partners, including Germany, not to move forward with it...”

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

Fascinating read but I don't know how much of it is true. Hersh claims that most of the information comes from a single source.

JFK Assassination Forum

Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« on: February 09, 2023, 12:43:12 AM »


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2023, 06:52:01 PM »
The story that the Russians blew up their own pipeline never made any sense.  Our hapless media just repeated it like a propaganda machine.  Any person with a functioning brain could realize that the Russians had no incentive to blow up their own pipeline.  In addition, if they had done so, the US and our allies would have had rock solid proof of the event.   There is no way the Russians could do that without US intelligence knowing it.  But what did Biden and his administration tell us?  It was most likely the Russians.  And the US played no part in it.  HA HA HA.  They are adept at half-truths.  So maybe the US only arranged it and someone from a NATO country pushed the button.  Either way it is still a falsehood perpetuated by Biden.  It begs the question of what else they have lied about to perpetuate this war.  And where is the mainstream media seeking answers?  Nowhere.  They don't want answers.  Nothing to see there.   It's all a conspiracy theory of MAGA supporters (which often becomes the accepted truth long after it no longer matters).

Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2023, 07:11:07 AM »

The story that the Russians blew up their own pipeline never made any sense.  Our hapless media just repeated it like a propaganda machine.  Any person with a functioning brain could realize that the Russians had no incentive to blow up their own pipeline.  In addition, if they had done so, the US and our allies would have had rock solid proof of the event.   There is no way the Russians could do that without US intelligence knowing it.  But what did Biden and his administration tell us?  It was most likely the Russians.  And the US played no part in it.  HA HA HA.  They are adept at half-truths.  So maybe the US only arranged it and someone from a NATO country pushed the button.  Either way it is still a falsehood perpetuated by Biden.  It begs the question of what else they have lied about to perpetuate this war.  And where is the mainstream media seeking answers?  Nowhere.  They don't want answers.  Nothing to see there.   It's all a conspiracy theory of MAGA supporters (which often becomes the accepted truth long after it no longer matters).

Russians blowing up their own pipeline makes perfect sense. Cutting off Germany form this supply might make them give in and stop supporting Ukraine.

Biden blowing up this pipeline makes no sense. How shall I describe his handling of Ukraine? With two words."Exterme Caution". He takes months to send HIMARS to Ukraine. He takes many more months before he decides it's okay to send tanks. Very careful and caution management.

But who matches the description of someone who throws caution to the wind? Who could do something like this? No one comes to mind. Oh, wait a second. Putin does.

While Biden is very cautious, Putin takes wild chances. He shows minimum restraint. Throws his entire army into the mix. Even throws in the trainers who are needed to train new forces. Risks world disfavor with all out attacks against civilians, shooting them on sight, attacking cities, attacking the power grid during winter. Trying to give the appearance of someone who could launch a nuclear attack at any moment if the West doesn't let him overrun Ukraine.

Many similar operations attempted in the past have failed. The Iran Iranian helicopter rescue mission of 1980. Even the attack on Bin Laden in 2011 has a serious breakdown of the plan when one of the helicopter crash lands on the compound. There is no guarantee for anyone attempting this mission that they will get away with it without being caught.

What would the risks be to Biden? Everything. A Europe that had united behind us against Russia could turn against us. He could seize defeat from the jaws of victory.

What would the risks be to Putin? Nothing. If it gets caught, it works to his advantage. He wants the world to think he is ruthless and crazy. That he is capable of anything. Getting caught doesn't hurt him at all. For Putin, attempting this operation is a Win-Win situation. Not so for Biden.

So, to me, a rational observer should conclude that Putin was the most likely suspect behind this bombing. And only an irrational person, or a rational person who wants authoritarianism to triumph, both at home and abroad, who says that Biden is the likely culprit. If authoritarianism can't succeed in Eastern Europe, what hope is there of it succeeding in America? Hence, the same ones who support the assault on Congress on January 6, who support the lies of Trump that the election was stolen from him, and who continue to support Trump, are, of course, the same ones who stand against Ukraine, which is the same as lending aid and comfort to the enemy of America, Putin and Russia.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2023, 07:11:07 AM »


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2023, 01:48:16 PM »
Russians blowing up their own pipeline makes perfect sense. Cutting off Germany form this supply might make them give in and stop supporting Ukraine.

Biden blowing up this pipeline makes no sense. How shall I describe his handling of Ukraine? With two words."Exterme Caution". He takes months to send HIMARS to Ukraine. He takes many more months before he decides it's okay to send tanks. Very careful and caution management.

But who matches the description of someone who throws caution to the wind? Who could do something like this? No one comes to mind. Oh, wait a second. Putin does.

While Biden is very cautious, Putin takes wild chances. He shows minimum restraint. Throws his entire army into the mix. Even throws in the trainers who are needed to train new forces. Risks world disfavor with all out attacks against civilians, shooting them on sight, attacking cities, attacking the power grid during winter. Trying to give the appearance of someone who could launch a nuclear attack at any moment if the West doesn't let him overrun Ukraine.

Many similar operations attempted in the past have failed. The Iran Iranian helicopter rescue mission of 1980. Even the attack on Bin Laden in 2011 has a serious breakdown of the plan when one of the helicopter crash lands on the compound. There is no guarantee for anyone attempting this mission that they will get away with it without being caught.

What would the risks be to Biden? Everything. A Europe that had united behind us against Russia could turn against us. He could seize defeat from the jaws of victory.

What would the risks be to Putin? Nothing. If it gets caught, it works to his advantage. He wants the world to think he is ruthless and crazy. That he is capable of anything. Getting caught doesn't hurt him at all. For Putin, attempting this operation is a Win-Win situation. Not so for Biden.

So, to me, a rational observer should conclude that Putin was the most likely suspect behind this bombing. And only an irrational person, or a rational person who wants authoritarianism to triumph, both at home and abroad, who says that Biden is the likely culprit. If authoritarianism can't succeed in Eastern Europe, what hope is there of it succeeding in America? Hence, the same ones who support the assault on Congress on January 6, who support the lies of Trump that the election was stolen from him, and who continue to support Trump, are, of course, the same ones who stand against Ukraine, which is the same as lending aid and comfort to the enemy of America, Putin and Russia.

The Russians didn't need to blow up their own pipeline to cut off the supply of oil to Germany.  Good grief.  That makes absolutely no sense.  They would just cut it off.  If there were any doubt, Biden himself confirmed that if Russia invaded Ukraine that the US would "end" the pipeline.  And do you think the US intelligence agencies would still have no evidence that the Russians did this?  That would be quite an operation to pull off at sea. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7395
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2023, 01:40:22 AM »
The Russians didn't need to blow up their own pipeline to cut off the supply of oil to Germany.  Good grief.  That makes absolutely no sense.  They would just cut it off.  If there were any doubt, Biden himself confirmed that if Russia invaded Ukraine that the US would "end" the pipeline.  And do you think the US intelligence agencies would still have no evidence that the Russians did this?  That would be quite an operation to pull off at sea. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM

If you're right, Biden isn't as weak as you claim he is, right?


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2023, 01:40:22 AM »


Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2023, 03:31:10 PM »
Russians blowing up their own pipeline makes perfect sense. Cutting off Germany form this supply might make them give in and stop supporting Ukraine.

The Russians partly owned the pipeline and could turn off the gas any time they wanted. Blowing it up makes no sense for Russia after they spent billions to build both pipelines and even attempted to repair them.


Feb. 2023 - German top official says no evidence of Russian sabotage of Nord Stream pipeline

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/german-top-official-says-no-evidence-of-russian-sabotage-of-nord-stream-pipeline

German investigators currently have no evidence that Russia is behind the explosions on the Nord Stream 1 and 2 gas pipelines, German Attorney General Peter Frank told Die Welt.



Biden blowing up this pipeline makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense if the US can get away with it. What are the Germans going to do? Kick US troops out of Germany? Doubtful.

The whole thing smells like an inside job.

Is the Biden administration behaving like they're the least bit concerned about finding out who committed this major act of terror against German infrastructure? No.

Cutting Germany off from Russian energy has been a long-term US foriegn policy objective. See the article below from 2008:

2008 - German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

Utah Republican Senator Bob Bennett echoed Rice’s sentiments. “Russia is becoming an oil or a gas state,” said the economics expert. Bennett maintains that Germany is so dependent on Russian gas that this gives Moscow more political elbow room, for example, in Georgia. He says that Europeans have to do something about this “with pipelines that come from other countries to Europe.”

When it comes to Russia, politicians in Washington generally view Germany with suspicion. They accuse the Germans of being so dependent on Russian gas that they don’t dare speak their mind to the Russian strongman, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. But the Baltic States, Poland and the Scandinavians are also uneasy about the pipeline. They are afraid that Moscow and Berlin have made a special deal. However, such objections have their limits. Countries like France, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands would also be supplied by the pipeline.


https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/russia-s-energy-weapon-german-us-tensions-grow-over-baltic-pipeline-a-579677.html


So the US has long desired to cut the Germans off from Russian gas and Biden officials have expressed joy that the pipelines are destroyed. It couldn't be clearer who is most likely responsible...


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2023, 08:25:50 PM »
If you're right, Biden isn't as weak as you claim he is, right?

No, he is just more stupid than I realized risking WWIII over Ukraine.  And a liar. 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2023, 08:25:50 PM »


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Sy Hersh: Biden ordered German pipeline sabotage
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2023, 08:42:44 PM »
The Russians partly owned the pipeline and could turn off the gas any time they wanted. Blowing it up makes no sense for Russia after they spent billions to build both pipelines and even attempted to repair them.




That is absolutely correct.  Some folks, however, just accept whatever they are told without exercising any independent analysis or common sense.  It's like suppressing the Wuhan lab story as a conspiracy theory.  What are the odds that COVID would start in the very city where a lab was located doing "research" on the virus and not be related?   But nothing to see there because Fauci said there was no evidence.  So what happens now?  The truth will eventually come out maybe years from now and it will be something along the lines of US providing the intelligence and means for the pipeline to be destroyed.  Most likely by some NATO country that agreed to conduct the operation so long as the US never reveals who pushed the button.  When the truth comes out, Biden and company will claim they never lied.  The US didn't do it.  The half truth they have applied to every lie.