Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: When the SN was built  (Read 25704 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7407
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #176 on: February 07, 2023, 08:09:07 PM »
Advertisement

What makes this nonsense so easy is that making up stories with no basis in reality is child’s play.

You know this from experience, do you?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #176 on: February 07, 2023, 08:09:07 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #177 on: February 07, 2023, 09:51:35 PM »

I have no reason to doubt.

So photographic evidence that a person was where they said they were at a given time was never the real issue for you. QED  Thumb1:

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #178 on: February 07, 2023, 09:54:45 PM »

What makes this nonsense so easy is that making up stories with no basis in reality is child’s play.

As your heroes in the official investigation amply showed  Thumb1:

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #178 on: February 07, 2023, 09:54:45 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #179 on: February 07, 2023, 10:25:51 PM »
From the HSCA interview of Mr. Harold Norman:



Nothing about seeing Mr. Oswald coming from the SN window on an empty sixth floor. (That story, on which the Warren Gullibles build so much, is still of course several months away!)

But if Mr. Givens was making these dark mutterings about Mr.-Oswald-on-the-freight-elevator that same day, were they relayed by a co-worker------------with the result that they reached the ears of Insp. Herbert Sawyer? This Givens fellow has some information about Oswald.............

 Thumb1:
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 11:05:21 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #180 on: February 08, 2023, 04:03:58 AM »
This new presumptive  Bronson film 12:15 time stamp for the box on ledge is causing a bigger problem logically , especially if Oswald is the presumptive shooter.

The SM prepared late just after BRW left by 12:23:30 , by a shooter who had decided to change his original SW window position to the SE window after having been surprised at the presence of BRW at 12:15, is the more plausible theory imo. It works best with some other person than Oswald as the shooter, however.

Otherwise, it’s a situation where if the shooter is Oswald, he had already prepared the SN just before BRW was on the 6th floor and then Oswald had left the 6th floor to go down to ground floor to speak to Piper at 12:00

Then Oswald would have to  be seen by Carolyn Arnold about 12:12 rather than 12:15 in the 2nd floor lunchroom. ( Thus is not likely because all the women, including Mrs Reid had not yet left the lunchroom. )

Then Oswald would go back up the staircase to the 6th floor landing and grab a rifle from a hiding place nearby, and he would decide to abandon running over to the prepared SN , choosing the SW unprepared window instead.

Getting as close to within 3-5ft of a fully open SW window holding the rifle at the ready , suggests possibly the shooter had mistaken the noise of the siren of the 12:15 ambulance (for the epileptic man) as heralding the arrival of the JFK motorcade to Dealey plaza.

The shooter then realized his mistake upon being able to have LOS to the ground level of Dealey plaza, and so he backed away from SW window.

Now this shooter could have then just walked right down that 3ft wide corridor along the South facing wall to go directly to the prepared SW window, however he apparently did not otherwise he would surely have seen and be seen by BRW supposedly sitting low to floor on the cart.

possibilities:

1. The shooter thought it more stealthy to go back to the staircase than via past the rear elevators to get to the SW window

2. The shooter , after making his impulsive move to the SW window on the mistaken siren noise stimulus, also saw or heard BRW upon getting to within 3-5 ft from the SW window, therefore knew he couldn’t go directly to the SN.

3. The shooter did not wish to have to break apart some of the stacked west side wall of boxes to enter the SN.

In any case , Carolyn Arnold’s FBI report of sighting Oswald at 12:25 on the ground floor , front entrance lobby of TSBD would make it an impossible feat for the shooter to be Oswald.

And Oswald coincidentally describing Norman and Jarman out of all the employees he might have named , suggests Oswald was also in the Domino room around 12:25-26 and saw N/J returning.

So although I’m willing to discard Arnold Rowlands later statements of an elderly negro leaning out the SN at 12:15, while retaining his earliest affidavit statement of sighting the Latin/white man at the SW window at 12:15, the probability is very low that the person holding the 30.06 hunting rifle with large scope , was Oswald holding an MC rifle.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #180 on: February 08, 2023, 04:03:58 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #181 on: February 08, 2023, 12:37:21 PM »
So although I’m willing to discard Arnold Rowlands later statements of an elderly negro leaning out the SN at 12:15, while retaining his earliest affidavit statement of sighting the Latin/white man at the SW window at 12:15,

Mr. Rowland told Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig about the 'elderly Negro' within minutes of the shooting on 11/22. Those officials taking his subsequent statements evidently saw 'no significance' in this 'elderly Negro' detail, such as might merit inclusion in his account. Go figure!

 Thumb1:

Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #182 on: February 08, 2023, 02:34:55 PM »
Here's part of the DPD radio channel 1 transcript which tells us more about the time of the epileptic event:







As you can see, the call for an ambulance happened about 12:19 pm. And the ambulance reported "out" (which, if I remember correctly, means arrived at the scene) at about 12:24 pm. The ambulance reported en route to Parkland before the 12:25 time stamp. This appears to mean that the Bronson film segment happened between 12:24 and 12:25, and I have modified my original post to reflect this.

This is approximately the same time that BRW, Norman, and Jarman were making their way to the fifth floor. And it could be that they never saw the epileptic event due to their travels. None of them mentioned it in their testimonies. And if they had seen the epileptic event, it seems to me that they might have used it to help describe the time of day that they moved. Regardless, the boxes (as we can see in the Bronson film) were already assembled in the sniper's nest by this time (12:24-12:25).

« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 02:37:41 PM by Charles Collins »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #182 on: February 08, 2023, 02:34:55 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #183 on: February 08, 2023, 08:36:14 PM »
That’s reasonable data there substantiating that the time was  approx not later than 12:25 for the Bronson film beginning.

The ambulance arriving later at 12:19 imo rules out the idea that the ambulance siren had anything to do with the shooters choice to advance to the SW window at 12:15.

Is it reasonable to conclude the shooter very probably had initially planned to shoot from the SW window , but then changed his mind for some reason upon nearing it and then decided to move over to SE window , decided it was a better  vantage point and then probably placed the window ledge box just after BRW left the floor about 12:24?

I think it’s entirely plausible the shooter could have gone around past BRW , to the NE side of the floor without BRW seeing him do so.

It’s also probable that the shooter could have then just waited on that east side wall aisle leading to the SN and able to peek around some of the rows of boxes to observe if BRW was ever going to leave the floor, and exit via stairs  or board an elevator.

Probably  the shooter would never have fired his rifle if BRW had not left the floor.

The shooter must have felt confident enough that If BRW had remained on the floor, the shooter could hide his rifle again somewhere and exit from the floor.

It may be that the shooter was  a member of the outside contracted floor laying crew, who had actually worked on the floor earlier. So perhaps he felt confident that if he were seen by chance on the 6th floor after no event happens,  that no one would be suspicious of him.

He could later get his rifle from hiding place late night entering TSBD via some left open window in darkness just as he probably had entered TSBD on late Thursday 11/21/63 night or early am hour Friday 11/22/63, to plant an MC rifle to frame Oswald.