The Floor-Laying Crew


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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2023, 08:55:34 PM »
Only pesky if one believes he's telling the truth about that. I don't. (Nor do I believe he would have been mistaken by Mr. Arnold Rowland for a plaid-shirt-wearing, bald, 'elderly Negro'.)

Mr. Tom Alyea insisted the chicken remains were found on the FIFTH floor and brought up to six by cops--------who then made a big noise about them to the press at first. After that, they needed 'splainin' away: enter Mr. Williams.

Mr. Norman, in his 1991 Sixth Floor interview, states that all three men (he, Mr. Williams, Mr Jarman) ate up on the fifth floor, and that Mr. Williams was the one with the chicken sandwich.

In his 11/22 affidavit, Mr. Williams says he went to the fifth floor with Messrs. Norman & Jarman, and the motorcade arrived just after they got there.

The following day, he tells the FBI a very different story:



So: quick, 3-minute wolfing down of his LUNCH on six, then he JOINS Hank & Junior on five. Chicken remains on six (which in the meantime have become an embarrassment for the 'investigating' authorities) duly accounted for!  Thumb1:

Except! The timeline is ridiculous. Messrs. Norman & Jarman didn't get up to five until nearly 25 minutes after that. So Mr. Williams will have to keep elongating the time he spent up on six before joining his co-workers on five.

The reality is, he in all likelihood never went up to six after breaking for lunch, for the presence of the carpentry crew on six made him & Messrs. Norman & Jarman decide in advance to choose five to watch the P. Parade from. All his talk, in his WC testimony, of a prior agreement amongst the 6th floor crew to meet back up on six is just so much palaver, designed to offer spurious motivation for his fictitious solo sojourn on six.

And: in all likelihood it was Messrs. Norman & Jarman who joined Mr. Williams on five, rather than the other way around. (They had split up after breaking for lunch, with Mr. Williams heading out alone to the catering truck.)

Why, even in his WC testimony, Mr. Norman was not willing to let words be put in his mouth about this question:

Mr. BALL. And what did you and Junior do after you got off the elevator?
Mr. NORMAN. We walked around to the windows facing Elm Street and I can't recall if any were open or not but I remember we opened some, two or three windows ourselves.
Mr. BALL. Did somebody join you there?
Mr. NORMAN. Bonnie Ray, I can't remember if he was there when we got there or he came later. I know he was with us a period of time later.
Mr. BALL. And then did he come down before the President's motorcade came by?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; he was with us before the motorcade came by.


**

I believe our picture of what the sixth floor looked like between noon and the motorcade needs a radical reconfiguration. None of the Depository employees (with the possible exception of Mr. Jack Dougherty, at a late point) were up there at all during that time, but the floor still had several men on it. Only they were not 'strangers' per se.....................

When the assassination happened, and the sixth floor was identified as the source of shots, Messrs. Williams, Jarman, Arce, Lovelady, Givens, and Dougherty understood two horrific facts: the men who had been working with them on the floor-laying project had carried out the atrocity; and these men knew each of their names and their faces.

Silence is golden.

Thankfully, Mr. Norman, being out of the floor-laying loop, was-----at least later-----less constrained in what he felt able to say.

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« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 09:03:22 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2023, 08:55:34 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2023, 08:57:27 PM »
Is there a full moon?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2023, 09:55:03 PM »
If so, then we find ourselves with a bunch of men in the Depository 11/22/63 who were legitimately working there, were not 'strangers' to the building who did not 'belong' there, yet were not on any list of Depository employees.

The implications of such a scenario are profound.

To take just two examples....................

1. "The [building] manager said I know that man he works here": from Officer Baker's 11/22 affidavit account. If this incident by the rear stairway several floors up really happened, then Mr. Truly could have truthfully said these words about EITHER an employee of the Depository OR one of the construction guys brought in to lay the new plywood floor.

2. From Officer Baker's WC testimony:

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us.
Mr. DULLES - Were they white men?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.


Mr. Harold Norman's information releases us from the binary option of EITHER these two white men were Depository employees OR they were 'strangers'.
They need have been neither. For now a third option presents itself: they were two of the construction guys belonging to the outside contractor (in fact, the assassination team)

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Another example of the explanatory work offered by Mr. Norman's information about the outside carpenters brought in to work on the floor-laying project:

If a stranger or strangers had come up on to the sixth floor to carry out the hit, then they would have been careful not to draw attention to their presence by appearing at south-facing windows. Any Depository person down on the street might spot them and wonder about them.

But we find no such shyness from the men on the sixth floor post-noon.

Mr. Arnold Rowland's 'elderly Negro', for example, casually hangs out at the SE window. From a stranger who has clandestinely entered and is laying low for the hit, this is pure madness.

It all makes sense, however, if he is part of the outside floor-laying crew. He is perfectly entitled to be up there. His presence is not in the least bit anomalous. If he is spotted by one of the Depository manual workers down below, why they can exchange a friendly wave.

He is also (one might add) giving a public sign that the crew are still up on the sixth floor, and floor-laying work is continuing on. Not a bad way of keeping low the likelihood that any Depository man will decide to slip up to six after all, on the assumption that the outside crew have gone on their break......................

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« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 10:05:46 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2023, 09:55:03 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2023, 10:21:54 PM »
What we have, then, is an outside carpentry crew installed on the sixth floor at 12pm that serves two logistical purposes:

A. To continue working on the noisy flooring job right up to, or close to, the motorcade's arrival, thus rendering the sixth floor inhospitable to Depository men seeking a quiet vantage point for the motorcade.

B. To provide the man or men who will fire the shots.

Let us note that, in terms of manpower, B. generates a subset of A: you need X number of men to carry out A., but only Y number of men to carry out B.

Why is this important? Because it means that all but one or two of the team can have already left the sixth floor by the time shots are fired. The floor has been secured, their purpose is served. No need for a group stampede downstairs just after the shooting. Every member of the team does not need to go downstairs at the same time. The non-shooters can slip away shortly before the action is to start. And the beauty of it is that, even in the unlikely event (unlikely given the proximity to the motorcade's arrival) that a Depository employee crosses their path on the way down and out, that employee will not bat an eyelid at anyone whose face has been seen around the building for days and weeks already.

This neutralizes the problem of how a TEAM of men could have gotten downstairs unseen and unheard just after the shooting. There was no TEAM by that stage. Just one or two men.

And, if Officer Baker's affidavit is telling us the truth, the man he caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up was at least one of those who stayed up on six until the bitter end.

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Offline Michael Walton

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2023, 04:45:04 AM »
Sure, sure. Lee was a great planner. Had it all planned out. Put together the gun after sneaking it in. But not having a chance to test fire it after putting it back together. Building an elaborate sniper's nest, goes through all of the effort of hiding the gun, yet leaves the three shells in the nest. And the best planning of all is when Kennedy is coming toward the building on Houston, there's a golden opportunity to have a clear shot. Yet, he waits, and waits some more with a tree obscuring his view on Elm. Nerves maybe? Nope. He's a great planner, right? No matter. The great planner pulls it off with one shot hitting way down the street. Oops! Two out of the three ain't too bad.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2023, 02:32:15 PM »
Here's Mr. Jack Dougherty (only just) dodging an interrogatory bullet..........................

Mr. BALL - Did you see him again that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; just one more time.
Mr. BALL - Where was that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That was on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - On the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - About what time of day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was about 11 o'clock-that was the last time I saw him.
Mr. BALL - What was he doing up there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, as far as I could tell, he was getting some stock---as far as I could tell.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was getting some stock also.
Mr. BALL - And were there some other workmen up there at the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Not that I know of.

Mr. BALL - Well, do you remember Shelley, Dan Arce, Bonnie Williams, Bill Lovelady, and Charlie Givens who were working up there that morning---laying floor on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes; they were laying floor---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And were they there at the time you were there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes, sir; they were there---yes, sir.


He first misunderstands what Mr. Ball means by "other workmen", and disclaims all knowledge of such up on the sixth floor that morning. Then, when Mr. Ball clarifies that he is speaking of Depository employees, he is relieved to find that the question was innocuous: ah, you mean THOSE floor-laying guys...

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2023, 02:32:15 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2023, 02:38:09 PM »
Here's Mr. Jack Dougherty (only just) dodging an interrogatory bullet..........................

Mr. BALL - Did you see him again that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; just one more time.
Mr. BALL - Where was that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That was on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - On the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - About what time of day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was about 11 o'clock-that was the last time I saw him.
Mr. BALL - What was he doing up there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, as far as I could tell, he was getting some stock---as far as I could tell.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was getting some stock also.
Mr. BALL - And were there some other workmen up there at the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Not that I know of.

Mr. BALL - Well, do you remember Shelley, Dan Arce, Bonnie Williams, Bill Lovelady, and Charlie Givens who were working up there that morning---laying floor on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes; they were laying floor---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And were they there at the time you were there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes, sir; they were there---yes, sir.


He first misunderstands what Mr. Ball means by "other workmen", and disclaims all knowledge of such up on the sixth floor that morning. Then, when Mr. Ball clarifies that he is speaking of Depository employees, he is relieved to find that the question was innocuous: ah, you mean THOSE floor-laying guys...

Now----------compare!

1. "I was working on the sixth floor today. There was six of us working on the floor." (Mr. Jack Dougherty, 11/22/63 affidavit)

2.
Mr. BALL - And it also says, this report from Mr. Johnson, states that you told him that just prior to 12 noon you and five other men were working on the sixth floor. Were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; we were working on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was getting some stock off of the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - You weren't helping the men lay floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.


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Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2023, 02:48:27 PM »
Sure, sure. Lee was a great planner. Had it all planned out. Put together the gun after sneaking it in. But not having a chance to test fire it after putting it back together. Building an elaborate sniper's nest, goes through all of the effort of hiding the gun, yet leaves the three shells in the nest. And the best planning of all is when Kennedy is coming toward the building on Houston, there's a golden opportunity to have a clear shot. Yet, he waits, and waits some more with a tree obscuring his view on Elm. Nerves maybe? Nope. He's a great planner, right? No matter. The great planner pulls it off with one shot hitting way down the street. Oops! Two out of the three ain't too bad.

LOL.  Why would this take any great planning?  He wrapped the gun in some paper.  Carried it to the TSBD and hid it.  The SN is already constructed and just waiting for him.  He didn't "build" it.  At most he moved a couple of smaller boxes. Oswald knows that he will quickly become a suspect in the crime once the FBI finds out that he works in the building and that he is gone.  The least of his problems are the shells.  There is no possible plan to get away with this crime.  Oswald doesn't expect to come to work on Monday.  Arrest or death is part of his equation in deciding to commit the crime.  He is boogieing in the short timeframe before he becomes the suspect.  Playing out his hand.  Tippit puts an end to that with heroic police work. 

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Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2023, 02:48:27 PM »


 

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