Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: The Floor-Laying Crew  (Read 22892 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2023, 04:57:37 AM »
Advertisement
Now, does Alan propose that BRW was never there on the 6th floor?

If BRW is not there and it’s pretty certain that Piper wasn’t there, then we have that same problem
 of Arnold Rowlands observing the “elderly negro” from 12:15-12:20 who was “hanging out” the 6th floor SE window.

The only way I found as a possible ( but low probable) solution is the following:

1. BRW was at the 6th floor SE window until approx 12:23:30.
2. Norman and Jarman begin their return from
Out front of TSBD exactly at 12:22 upon hearing a radio transmission reporting the JFK motorcade about to reach Dealey plaza.
3. The 6th floor shooter went hiding somewhere on the 6th floor after he was seen by Rowland at 12:15 at the SW window.
4. After hearing or seeing BRW enter/use elevator and departing, the shooter moved (in about 1 minute) to the SN window and placed the box on the window ledge about 12:24:45 and then sat on the box by the pipes and kept himself out of LOS. Thus at 12:25 , when Bronson film shows the side of TSBD, the box is on the window ledge, and there does not appear to be any movement of,  or shape of, a figure at the window.
5. After failure by WC to discredit Rowland, BRW was “advised” to place himself a couple windows over and the chicken bones and Dr.Pepper were moved from the SN to the new position.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2023, 04:57:37 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2023, 08:53:16 AM »
Those are my impressions. And I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly believe the nonsense fairytale you are trying to pass off.

Yawn!

Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.

He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).

Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2023, 08:55:11 AM »
Now, does Alan propose that BRW was never there on the 6th floor?

If BRW is not there and it’s pretty certain that Piper wasn’t there, then we have that same problem
 of Arnold Rowlands observing the “elderly negro” from 12:15-12:20 who was “hanging out” the 6th floor SE window.

We don't have that problem anymore, Mr. Mason. The 'elderly Negro' was one of the outside crew working on the floor-laying project. All the Depository men, who were helping them out with the floor laying, had left the sixth floor together via an elevator race. The members of the outside crew stayed up on six.

Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams in all likelihood did not set foot on the sixth floor after leaving it for his lunch break. He was just used to explain away the chicken bones

 Thumb1:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 09:01:48 AM by Alan Ford »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2023, 08:55:11 AM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3590
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2023, 12:03:59 PM »
Yawn!

Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.

He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).

Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.




Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.


Taking cherry-picked words and isolating them from all of the other evidence and testimonies is not how one should form a conclusion. When considering that your interpretation of those isolated words contradicts everything else known about who was on the sixth floor (and who wasn't), it is reasonable to believe that your interpretation cannot be correct. A more reasonable explanation is that Norman is considering the Elm Street building the depository, and the separate warehouse building as something separate. Mr. Sample is the only one who used the words "outside contractor." And workers from the warehouse could be considered from "outside" the depository by Norman. Again, considering the totality of the evidence regarding who was (and wasn't) on the sixth floor that day, this is the only reasonable explanation.



He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).


It doesn't prove that at all. LHO couldn't remember Norman's name (as someone who he claimed walked through the domino room at his lunch time) and he had worked with him that same day. The interview with Norman was done 28-years later.



Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.


Jumping to those two conclusions is just plain nutty.  ::)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 12:06:04 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2023, 01:43:25 PM »
If BRW is on the 6th floor until 12:25, then it is improbable he would not have heard /seen the shooter moving a couple boxes and placing one on the SN window ledge.

So he would have to leave the 6th floor by about 12:24 so the shooter had  about 1minute to come out of hiding somewhere, traverse at least 100 ft  to get to the SN window and place the boxes.

Otherwise it’s an improbable situation of the shooter being very close to the SN while Williams is still on the 6th floor , supposedly eating his chicken at a window just a few windows over from the SN window.

More interestingly, if Oswald acted alone and didn't have a radio with him, how would he had known that JFK's motorcade was running a few minutes behind schedule?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2023, 01:43:25 PM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3590
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2023, 02:10:05 PM »
More interestingly, if Oswald acted alone and didn't have a radio with him, how would he had known that JFK's motorcade was running a few minutes behind schedule?


Why would that matter?

If he was hiding quietly and out of sight while in the sniper’s nest and BRW was eating his lunch in the third aisle, he still could have taken his shots before anyone could stop him. And if he was lurking quietly and out of sight on the west end of the floor, he could have taken shots from the open windows on that end of the building before anyone could have stopped him. As it appears to me, the second scenario seems likely. But BRW left the sixth floor before the motorcade arrived, so he was able to move to the sniper’s nest as I believe he originally planned.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 02:14:00 PM by Charles Collins »

Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5018
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2023, 02:57:34 PM »

Why would that matter?

If he was hiding quietly and out of sight while in the sniper’s nest and BRW was eating his lunch in the third aisle, he still could have taken his shots before anyone could stop him. And if he was lurking quietly and out of sight on the west end of the floor, he could have taken shots from the open windows on that end of the building before anyone could have stopped him. As it appears to me, the second scenario seems likely. But BRW left the sixth floor before the motorcade arrived, so he was able to move to the sniper’s nest as I believe he originally planned.

Yes, and Oswald had eyes and ears.  He knew the approximate schedule and witnesses indicated that you could hear the approach of the motorcade from the cheering along the route.  And the police radios reporting the progress of the motorcade were audible in DP.  No great feat that he was in place and waited for it.  It's fortunate for BRW that he left the floor or he likely would have gotten the last bullet as Oswald exited the floor.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2023, 02:57:34 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: The Floor-Laying Crew
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2023, 02:59:33 PM »

Why would that matter?

If Oswald expected the motorcade to pass TSBD at the scheduled time, he would've needed to be in the sniper's nest at the time when BRW (or someone else) was there. Unless he had a radio and was listening to the parade at the time, he couldn't have known that he had a few more minutes to get into his firing position. (he also couldn't have known that BRW would leave shortly before the motorcade arrived or been able to prevent anyone else from coming to the Sixth floor).

« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 03:00:50 PM by Jon Banks »