Tippit Shooting 1:15-1:16

[Bill Brown]

Straw man. Garbage.

Scoggins gave times of arriving as 1:00p / 1:05p / 1:25p - He doesn't know what time it was.
And you don't know what time that call came into City Transportation Co.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7461145

His supervisor said that the initial action of the call was to notify the Dallas Police Department immediately.
It was noted that due to the urgent nature of the message, the logging of the message into their records may have been delayed while notifying police first.
You are making up times to equate a 1:15 (approx) shooting.

Mr. BELIN. That is the time that he recorded it?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes. He must have recorded it up there because he said it was 1:23 in the afternoon.

[Michael Capasse]

Mr. BELIN. That is the time that he recorded it?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes. He must have recorded it up there because he said it was 1:23 in the afternoon.

That doesn't have to equate to a 1:15 shooting
His supervisor said that the initial action of the call was to notify the Dallas Police Department immediately.
It was noted that due to the urgent nature of the message, the logging of the message into their records may have been delayed while notifying police first.

[John Mytton]

Is that your stock answer ? Too bad none of the times stamps can be relied upon.
So your starting time is bogus.

 

If as predicted, you say no time stamps can be relied upon then the multiple eyewitnesses must be given a greater emphasis.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. V DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in that room?
Mrs. B DAVIS. Yes, sir. I recognized number 2.

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer. We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him." So they brought four men in.
I stepped to the back of the room, so I could kind of see him from the same distance which I had seen him before. And when he came out, I knew him.
Mr. BALL. You mean he looked like the same man?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. I was looking--trying to see and after I heard the third shot, then Oswald came through on Patton running---came right through the yard in front of the big white house---there's a big two-story white house---there's two of them there and he come through the one right on the corner of Patton.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you some pictures that we have here. I show you a picture that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if that is the man that you saw going down the street on the 22d of November as you have already told us.
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Four? Did any one of the people look anything like strike that. Did you identify anyone in the lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.
 
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

The eyewitnesses who positively identified Oswald and confirmed he was carrying a gun and many of those eyewitnesses describe the same type of gun that Oswald was later arrested with.

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

The Police Officers who were confronted with the murdering Oswald.

Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. HUTSON. McDonald was at this time simultaneously trying to hold this person's right hand. Somehow this person moved his right hand to his waist, and I saw a revolver come out, and McDonald was holding on to it with his right hand, and this gun was waving up toward the back of the seat like this.

Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.

Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.

Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

The shells recovered at the Tippit crime scene were an exclusive match to Oswald's revolver.



JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

Some other things to keep in mind about the Tippit shooting:

-- When Mrs. Roberts last saw Oswald after he left the boarding house, he was standing near the street. She looked out the window a short time after Oswald left the house and saw him standing near the street, not speed-walking toward the Tippit scene.

-- Initially, the murder weapon was firmly identified as an automatic pistol, not Oswald's revolver. The person who identified the weapon as an automatic pistol was a Marine combat veteran and an experienced policeman, Sgt. Gerald Hill. Hill based his automatic-pistol identification on the shell casings. As any firearms expert can attest, it is very easy to distinguish between automatic shells and revolver shells. Additionally, in a 1986 interview, Hill said he knew the shells were .38-caliber shells because he picked one of them up and examined it. This is significant because .38 automatic shells are marked ".38 AUTO" on the bottom. Hill specifically said he looked on the bottom of the shell that he examined. It is no wonder, then, that Hill got on the radio and said, "the shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38."

[Alan J. Ford]

Mr. Brown,

With all due respect since you are one of the few LNs I have come to respect (not so much for your belief that Mr. Oswald is responsible for Mr. Tippett's demise as much as for your genuine passion for Justice). We have rarely agreed upon anything since my initial foray into researching this matter in May, 2014 but there's just something about you that inspires love of country and patriotism. I respect that in you sir.

Now, that said, let me remind you that Officer Hill identified the bullets that led to Mr. Tippitts' demise as coming from a semiautomatic weapon (not a revolver later planted on an innocent party). 

Look no further than a bunch of lying treasonous cowards who were and are responsible for hatching a hastily contrived script to frame an innocent man. The wrongly-accused--Mr. Oswald--did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.

Last post for the Summer, best to you & yours Mr. Brown for a spectacular, happy, healthy and safe Summer sir.

[Bill Brown]

Mr. Brown,

With all due respect since you are one of the few LNs I have come to respect (not so much for your belief that Mr. Oswald is responsible for Mr. Tippett's demise as much as for your genuine passion for Justice). We have rarely agreed upon anything since my initial foray into researching this matter in May, 2014 but there's just something about you that inspires love of country and patriotism. I respect that in you sir.

Now, that said, let me remind you that Officer Hill identified the bullets that led to Mr. Tippitts' demise as coming from a semiautomatic weapon (not a revolver later planted on an innocent party). 

Look no further than a bunch of lying treasonous cowards who were and are responsible for hatching a hastily contrived script to frame an innocent man. The wrongly-accused--Mr. Oswald--did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.

Last post for the Summer, best to you & yours Mr. Brown for a spectacular, happy, healthy and safe Summer sir.

Thanks Alan, I appreciate your words, that's very kind.  I wish the same for you.

As for the shell casings, if they were fired from an automatic weapon...

Why were two of the shell casings found about thirty feet from the patrol car and the other two found over one hundred feet from the patrol car?  Automatic shell casings would have been found right there at the patrol car where the shooter was standing as he fired off the shots.

Why did multiple eyewitnesses describe the man, as he fled, manually unloading the weapon?  Automatic casings would not require being unloaded manually; they would have been automatically ejected after each shot was fired.

[Mitch Todd]

Some other things to keep in mind about the Tippit shooting:

-- When Mrs. Roberts last saw Oswald after he left the boarding house, he was standing near the street. She looked out the window a short time after Oswald left the house and saw him standing near the street, not speed-walking toward the Tippit scene.

-- Initially, the murder weapon was firmly identified as an automatic pistol, not Oswald's revolver. The person who identified the weapon as an automatic pistol was a Marine combat veteran and an experienced policeman, Sgt. Gerald Hill. Hill based his automatic-pistol identification on the shell casings. As any firearms expert can attest, it is very easy to distinguish between automatic shells and revolver shells. Additionally, in a 1986 interview, Hill said he knew the shells were .38-caliber shells because he picked one of them up and examined it. This is significant because .38 automatic shells are marked ".38 AUTO" on the bottom. Hill specifically said he looked on the bottom of the shell that he examined. It is no wonder, then, that Hill got on the radio and said, "the shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38."

Standard ammo nomenclature puts the bullet caliber first followed by a description that identifies a specific cartridge. For instance, in .38 caliber, there is .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 Smith&Wesson, .38 Special, .38 Auto, .38 Super .38 Super Comp, .38 Casull, etc.

After it's introduction circa 1900, .38 Special has been almost ubiquitous for that caliber, to the point were just saying ".38" has become almost universally understood shorthand for ".38 special."

So when Hill says "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol," it should really be read as "automatic .38 special."
Also, notice that he has to add "rather than a pistol" to indicate that the gun is a .38, but not the .38 that would be expected from his description of the shells.

One might argue that .38 special was designed for revolvers. This is true, but not the whole story. In the first decades after WW2, a number of automatic pistols were chambered in .38 special and became somewhat popular, especially among target shooters. The most famous of these is the S&W model 52.

[Michael Capasse]

Gil Jesus provides a detailed explanation of the confusion surrounding the shells here:
https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-shells/

It is a mess.