JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy


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Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2023, 07:28:25 AM »
Somebody is pretty damned stupid if they think what they've presented in this forum "works". Of course I have done the laser experiment but if I posted my results would it change your mind? Let's see. I'm holding a mirror to show where the laser in front strikes me at C7. Note where the rear laser strikes my neck, which is where C7/C6 actually is, not on the back, like JFK's alleged entrance wound.

http://www.kohlbstudio.com/Images/MB2lasers2.png

You must do the experiment yourself to be convinced, which is why you definitely won't do it. You wouldn't want to burst your dufus bubble by knowing the truth and having wasted decades on this forum defending the magic bullet. How stupid would that be?  :-*



Kennedy was slouching. You're upright, maybe leaning backwards a bit. You also need to have the laser at the necktie knot level.



 

The problem with this sort of experimentation is that it's a unique moment in time that has to be duplicated. On either side of that mirco-second immediately begins a million different ways that depart from the unique moment. Kennedy and you have different physiques. The odds are astronomically in favor of the duplication being a failure.

The "back wound" autopsy photo was taken as if from above the level of the wound. The lower back recedes and the head towards the top of the picture is noticeably larger. This oblique view, along with the shoulders raised up due to rigor mortis, make the wound seem lower than it was.

The lower part of the ruler rises away from the back. If the wound was in the back, the whole length of the ruler would be flat against the surface. Instead the ruler is pressed against the area where the back curves towards the neck. The level of the skin bump caused by the scapular spine (the scapula bone is raised along with the shoulders due to rigor mortis) support the entry wound at C7 level.

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2023, 07:28:25 AM »


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2023, 08:17:45 AM »

Kennedy was slouching. You're upright, maybe leaning backwards a bit. You also need to have the laser at the necktie knot level.

The problem with this sort of experimentation is that it's a unique moment in time that has to be duplicated. On either side of that mirco-second immediately begins a million different ways that depart from the unique moment. Kennedy and you have different physiques. The odds are astronomically in favor of the duplication being a failure.

The "back wound" autopsy photo was taken as if from above the level of the wound. The lower back recedes and the head towards the top of the picture is noticeably larger. This oblique view, along with the shoulders raised up due to rigor mortis, make the wound seem lower than it was.

The lower part of the ruler rises away from the back. If the wound was in the back, the whole length of the ruler would be flat against the surface. Instead the ruler is pressed against the area where the back curves towards the neck. The level of the skin bump caused by the scapular spine (the scapula bone is raised along with the shoulders due to rigor mortis) support the entry wound at C7 level.

If you say so. Your superimposed skull and spine graphic was scaled incorrectly and cannot be used as a reference. I also have a photo showing the laser dot on my bare neck at C6/C7.

I also tried flipping the reference to the back wound and putting the laser at T1 to see where it exited with the front laser. You guessed it, below T1 and well below the knot. And the magic bullet definitely went as low as T1.

http://www.kohlbstudio.com/Images/x-ray_mb.gif

I repeated the experiment for every conceivable position and the only way I could match the wounds was when I was bent forward almost to my knees. The front laser barely cleared my chin. Only then could it have struck JFK in the back at T1 and exited at C7, but JFK wasn't bent forward, let alone to his knees.

You can't fold your spine by slouching and you can only rotate your spine away from the MB's trajectory to have the entry wound lower on your back than the throat wound.

Not sure what your graphics are supposed to show but they can't show you what the the lasers can, which is an accurate 3D rendering of the experiment which even a layman like you can take to the bank.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 08:19:27 AM by Jack Trojan »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2023, 03:55:25 PM »
If you say so. Your superimposed skull and spine graphic was scaled incorrectly and cannot be used as a reference. I also have a photo showing the laser dot on my bare neck at C6/C7.

Gee. Show us how a skull and spine should be placed over your head and neck. Imagine such a superimposition with the overlay's C6 where your laser dot is.

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I also tried flipping the reference to the back wound and putting the laser at T1 to see where it exited with the front laser. You guessed it, below T1 and well below the knot. And the magic bullet definitely went as low as T1.

http://www.kohlbstudio.com/Images/x-ray_mb.gif

Is that your justification for having the laser so high in front? The missile tract went downward from the blinking area in the animation and exited somewhat above the juncture of the clavicles shown in the same X-ray. Use the autopsy photos to determine where the throat wound was; a half-circle of the bullet hole is on the lower half of the tracheotomy opening.

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I repeated the experiment for every conceivable position and the only way I could match the wounds was when I was bent forward almost to my knees. The front laser barely cleared my chin. Only then could it have struck JFK in the back at T1 and exited at C7, but JFK wasn't bent forward, let alone to his knees.

Well, the SBT--as I see it--would have entered at C7-level, coursed by the spine between the transverse processes of C7 and T1, and exited at T1-level.

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You can't fold your spine by slouching

I don't think a spine can "fold".  :D

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and you can only rotate your spine away from the MB's trajectory to have the entry wound lower on your back than the throat wound.

Not sure what your graphics are supposed to show but they can't show you what the the lasers can, which is an accurate 3D rendering of the experiment which even a layman like you can take to the bank.

Sure, if one strips out all the context, the default test (just sitting in a chair upright with arbitrary wound sites) is not going to duplicate the SBT neck transit.

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2023, 03:55:25 PM »


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2023, 07:41:19 PM »
And denial isn't just a river in Egypt. You are not a photogrammetrist and your graphics are more than misleading. Do the laser experiment for yourself. Only a reenactment will convince you and not my reenactment. You are predisposed to reject it with your LNer layman's analysis. But I knew that, which is why I never bothered to post it before. I was just calling Nickerson's bluff to put up or shut up. Now it's your turn. Find someone that matches JFK and match the wounds with the lasers. My offer still stands to eat a bug if you post your results. Good luck!

Online Charles Collins

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2023, 03:15:53 PM »
The WC reenactment, done back when laser technology was still in itís infancy, gives us better information than Jackís laser experiment.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=4231&fullsize=1


It has the 17-degree angle depicted by the string near the wall behind them and duplicated with the pointer held by Spector. And the subjects in the limo have similar physiques to JFK and JBC. And one can see just how much the jacket and shirt of JFK needed to be ridden up in order to line up with the trajectory of the bullet.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 03:17:36 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2023, 08:35:10 PM »
The WC reenactment, done back when laser technology was still in itís infancy, gives us better information than Jackís laser experiment.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=4231&fullsize=1


It has the 17-degree angle depicted by the string near the wall behind them and duplicated with the pointer held by Spector. And the subjects in the limo have similar physiques to JFK and JBC. And one can see just how much the jacket and shirt of JFK needed to be ridden up in order to line up with the trajectory of the bullet.

Kennedy had somewhat of a hunched back. It looks to exit about an inch lower than it did on Kennedy. However, it also looks like they used an angle of 21 degrees.


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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2023, 08:35:10 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2023, 03:27:07 PM »
And denial isn't just a river in Egypt. You are not a photogrammetrist and your graphics are more than misleading. Do the laser experiment for yourself. Only a reenactment will convince you and not my reenactment. You are predisposed to reject it with your LNer layman's analysis. But I knew that, which is why I never bothered to post it before. I was just calling Nickerson's bluff to put up or shut up. Now it's your turn. Find someone that matches JFK and match the wounds with the lasers. My offer still stands to eat a bug if you post your results. Good luck!


Out of curiosity, I tried my hand at the two-laser test. Here are the results:


Here is the set-up, about 5-feet apart and a little over seventeen degrees elevation slope with an eleven degree right to left angle:





The laser level is mounted on a tripod, the front laser is mounted on a boom microphone stand, and they are pointed directly at each other:





The results are shown as follows. I don't have what I think would be a suitable mirror. But you might notice that the image from the rear is a screenshot of a pause in the video at the same time that I took the front photo with a phone camera (I spoke the words "right now" when I took the front photo and, while replaying it, paused the video when I heard me speak those words). This helps to assure that I didn't move between the two photos.








Judging from the location of the laser "crosshair" on the pattern of the shirt, it is about 3-7/8" down from the top of the collar:




This was yet another verification for me that the WC got it right. I thought I would share the details of how I set this experiment up. I triple-checked the aiming of the lasers before and after the test. It appears to me that Jack Trojan might not have set things up properly in his test.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2023, 10:44:41 PM »

Out of curiosity, I tried my hand at the two-laser test. Here are the results:

Here is the set-up, about 5-feet apart and a little over seventeen degrees elevation slope with an eleven degree right to left angle:

The laser level is mounted on a tripod, the front laser is mounted on a boom microphone stand, and they are pointed directly at each other:

The results are shown as follows. I don't have what I think would be a suitable mirror. But you might notice that the image from the rear is a screenshot of a pause in the video at the same time that I took the front photo with a phone camera (I spoke the words "right now" when I took the front photo and, while replaying it, paused the video when I heard me speak those words). This helps to assure that I didn't move between the two photos.

Judging from the location of the laser "crosshair" on the pattern of the shirt, it is about 3-7/8" down from the top of the collar:

This was yet another verification for me that the WC got it right. I thought I would share the details of how I set this experiment up. I triple-checked the aiming of the lasers before and after the test. It appears to me that Jack Trojan might not have set things up properly in his test.

What an outstanding job, Charles. Professional-grade equipment, too. I think Jack was using cheap laser pen-pointers and a protractor. This is how it should be done.



I hear crickets over at Jack's place. He has to catch one to eat it.

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Re: JFK's Shallow Back Wound and Knowledge of the Throat Wound at the Autopsy
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2023, 10:44:41 PM »


 

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