Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"  (Read 7098 times)

Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2022, 03:56:14 PM »
Advertisement
Actually, the story that Oswald left behind his wedding ring on 11/22/63 is open to serious doubt:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-there-a-wedding-ring
EXCERPT:

Oswald wore his wedding ring on his right hand in the Russian tradition.  That might be a source of confusion to an American who is used to seeing wedding rings only on the left hand.  And likely completely unaware of Oswald's kooky background.  There is zero doubt that Oswald wore a wedding ring.  According to his own wife, he wore it every day.   There are pictures of Oswald wearing his ring.  And we were recently told here that no one has ever suggested that family members lied to frame Oswald.  Oswald is not wearing the wedding ring when arrested.  Sherlock Holmes does not need to be consulted to connect the dots.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2022, 03:56:14 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7395
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2022, 04:06:20 PM »
Oswald wore his wedding ring on his right hand in the Russian tradition.  That might be a source of confusion to an American who is used to seeing wedding rings only on the left hand.  And likely completely unaware of Oswald's kooky background.  There is zero doubt that Oswald wore a wedding ring.  According to his own wife, he wore it every day.   There are pictures of Oswald wearing his ring.  And we were recently told here that no one has ever suggested that family members lied to frame Oswald.  Oswald is not wearing the wedding ring when arrested.  Sherlock Holmes does not need to be consulted to connect the dots.

Oswald is not wearing the wedding ring when arrested.  Sherlock Holmes does not need to be consulted to connect the dots.

Too bad those dots are just imaginary.

In the real world, when a couple breaks up and their marriage is over, it's normal to take of the wedding ring. According to Marina and Ruth Paine, Oswald came to Irving on Thursday to make up with Marina and ask her to live with him again. When she refused, he understood his marriage was over, so he left his ring behind.

It's a far more plausible explanation than "Oswald wasn't wearing his wedding ring which is evidence that he killed Kennedy".

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2022, 03:12:02 AM »
The members of the cult of the WC often like to point to their prophet Bugliosi and his "53 pieces of evidence" supposedly pointing to Lee Oswald's guilt in the assassination of John Kennedy.  If you examine the list, you'll find that 46 of them are not evidence at all, they are lawyer rhetoric and speculative confirmation bias.  4 items point to a particular weapon, not a person.  8 items are questionable or tainted in some way.  Some items fall into more than one category.

Key:
NE - not evidence with regard to JFK's murder
PW - points to a weapon, not a shooter
TQ - tainted or questionable

1. Oswald went to Irving with Frazier on a Thursday - NE
2. Oswald told Frazier he was going to Irving to pick up some curtain rods - NE
3. Oswald told Frazier he wouldn't be going home with him on Friday - NE
4. Oswald was not chatty about Kennedy's upcoming Dallas visit on Thursday evening - NE
5. Oswald left behind his wedding ring and $170 - NE
6. Oswald placed a long, bulky package on the rear seat of Frazier's car - NE
7. Frazier said it was the first time Oswald did not bring his lunch - NE
8. Oswald walked ahead of Frazier to the building from the parking area - NE
9. Oswald did not read the newspaper in the domino room that morning - NE
10. Oswald asked Jarman why people were gathering outside and then which way the president was coming - NE
11. Howard Brennan told the FBI on December 18 that he was "sure" that Oswald was the man he had seen in the window, after initially failing to make a positive identification - TQ
12. We know that Kennedy’s assassin was at the subject sixth-floor window - NE (not even true)
13. Oswald slipped up and placed himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination - (this isn't even true)
     Givens (over 4 months later) placed Oswald on the 6th floor at 11:55 - NE
     Oswald (supposedly) preferred Dr Pepper to Coke - NE
14. Why would Oswald go up to get a Coke after hearing all the commotion? - NE
15. Oswald was apparently uninterested in watching the motorcade outside - NE
16. Oswald left work within minutes of the shooting - NE
17. Oswald walked east and got on a bus heading back toward the TSBD - NE
18. Oswald got off the bus after a few blocks - NE
19. Oswald wasn't chatty with the cab driver - NE
20. Oswald had the cab driver drop him off a few blocks past his rooming house - NE
21. Roberts said Oswald seemed to be in a hurry - NE
22. Oswald allegedly picked up his revolver at the rooming house - NE
23. Oswald allegedly changed some of his clothing at the rooming house - NE
24. Oswald was allegedly chosen by Markham (in the unfair lineup) as the one who killed Tippit - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
25. Oswald looked funny to Brewer - NE
26. Oswald allegedly “ducked in” to the theater without buying a ticket - NE
27. According to McDonald, Oswald said "it's all over now" - NE
28. Oswald allegedly punched McDonald and reached for a gun in his waistband - NE
29. Oswald didn't sufficiently cooperate with police after arrest - NE
30. Oswald showed reporters his handcuffed hands and his fist was clenched - NE
31. Oswald supposedly refused to take a lie detector test - NE
32. Marina thought his eyes looked guilty - NE
33. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Klein's order coupon - TQ
34. The 2 large fragments supposedly found in the limo and CE399 were fired by C2766 - PW, TQ
35. The shells supposedly found by the window were fired by C2766 - PW
36. Two of Oswald's prints were found on a wrapper that was supposedly found by the window - NE
37. Oswald's prints were found on boxes near the window - NE
38. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Seaport Traders coupon for the CE143 revolver - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
39. 1 of 8 firearms experts thought one Tippit bullet was fired from CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
40. Cartridge cases supposedly found near 10th and Patton were matched to CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
41. Paraffin test on Oswald’s hands indicated the presence of nitrates - TQ
42. Oswald supposedly left his blue jacket in the TSBD - NE
43. Police supposedly found a light-colored jacket in a Texaco parking lot - NE
44. A clipboard attributed to Oswald with unfilled orders was supposedly found on the 6th floor a week later - NE
45. Oswald allegedly denied purchasing the Carcano rifle - NE
46. Oswald allegedly questioned the authenticity of a backyard photograph - NE
47. Oswald allegedly said he had never seen the photograph before, but handwriting analysts said it was his writing on the DeMohrenschildt print that turned up 4 years later - NE
48. Oswald allegedly denied ever living at the Neely apartment - NE
49. Oswald allegedly denied telling Frazier he was getting curtain rods - NE
50. Oswald allegedly denied putting a long package on the backseat of Frazier's car - NE
51. Oswald allegedly told Fritz that the only package he brought to work contained his lunch - NE
52. Oswald (by Fritz's account) allegedly said he had lunch with Jarman and another employee, but Jarman said he did not have lunch with Oswald - NE
53. Oswald allegedly said he bought his handgun in Fort Worth - NE

Thank you, Mr Iacoletti ....for taking the time to review and evaluate he "list of evidence"

There's not a single item on that list that is proof of Lee Oswald's guilt.....  Bugliosi should have been ashamed of producing such a POS.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2022, 03:12:02 AM »


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2022, 01:51:10 PM »
Oswald is not wearing the wedding ring when arrested.  Sherlock Holmes does not need to be consulted to connect the dots.

Too bad those dots are just imaginary.

In the real world, when a couple breaks up and their marriage is over, it's normal to take of the wedding ring. According to Marina and Ruth Paine, Oswald came to Irving on Thursday to make up with Marina and ask her to live with him again. When she refused, he understood his marriage was over, so he left his ring behind.

It's a far more plausible explanation than "Oswald wasn't wearing his wedding ring which is evidence that he killed Kennedy".

Oswald was so unlucky that day in your contrarian fantasy world.  After being married for many years, we now learn that his marriage ended on the very day of the assassination.  HA HA HA.  Of course Marina apparently wasn't made aware of this.  You should be embarrassed to peddle your nonsense.   And it's been explained a dozen times to you that no one is suggesting that not wearing a wedding ring alone is evidence of killing the president as you stupidly and dishonestly have characterized it.  The wedding ring is taken in context of the totality of other evidence.   Not in a vacuum by itself.   Leaving his wedding ring at home that morning when other evidence links him to the crime gives that act greater significance.   This would be obvious to any honest person which is where the issue arises.

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2022, 05:52:50 PM »
Oswald was so unlucky that day in your contrarian fantasy world.  After being married for many years, we now learn that his marriage ended on the very day of the assassination.  HA HA HA.

“Richard” thinks this is evidence of murder. HA HA HA.

Quote
And it's been explained a dozen times to you that no one is suggesting that not wearing a wedding ring alone is evidence of killing the president as you stupidly and dishonestly have characterized it.  The wedding ring is taken in context of the totality of other evidence.

“Explained”. LOL

Several things that are not evidence of anything do not magically combine to become evidence of something. This is just a lame and transparent attempt to substitute quantity for quality in order to prop up a failed argument.

Quote
Not in a vacuum by itself.   Leaving his wedding ring at home that morning when other evidence links him to the crime gives that act greater significance.   This would be obvious to any honest person which is where the issue arises.

Bull. Honest people don’t try to pass off their confirmation bias as evidence.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2022, 05:52:50 PM »


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4993
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2022, 06:32:14 PM »
How about a simple example for our contrarians?  Let's say there were three people named Martin, Roger, and Otto who all lived in Dallas and left their wedding rings at home on 11.22.63.  Would this alone make them suspects in the assassination?  Of course not.  No one ever has ever made this claim about Oswald.  But suppose "Martin" also worked in the building from which the shots were fired, his rifle is found there, his prints were on the SN boxes, rifle, and long bag, he had no credible alibi, fled the scene, got a gun, shot a policer officer, resisted arrest, and told the DPD numerous lies.  Martin's act of leaving his wedding ring at home that very day gains greater significance in the totality of context with the other evidence and circumstances.  It becomes highly probative that Martin anticipated not coming home again.  Why would this have been the case on 11.22.63 if Oswald simply planned on going to work?  It demonstrates foreknowledge of the assassination.  Something only the assassin could have known that morning.  A small child could understand this without assistance but some others either cannot or are intentionally dishonest.   
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 06:34:23 PM by Richard Smith »

Online David Von Pein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 09:54:14 PM »
There's not a single item on that [53-item] list that is proof of Lee Oswald's guilt.....  Bugliosi should have been ashamed of producing such a POS.

Here we have another CTer who is incapable of "Adding Up" the various unusual things that Lee Oswald did on 11/21 and 11/22. (I.E., the things that unquestionably "Add Up" to LHO's guilt in the two murders he committed in Dallas on November 22nd.)

But, then too, I've known for many years that the individual named Cakebread has never been any good at all when it comes to mathematics, especially addition. He takes after his fellow goofy conspiracy fantasist, Ben Holmes, in that regard.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 10:48:27 PM by David Von Pein »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 09:54:14 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7395
Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2022, 12:09:07 AM »
Here we have another CTer who is incapable of "Adding Up" the various unusual things that Lee Oswald did on 11/21 and 11/22. (I.E., the things that unquestionably "Add Up" to LHO's guilt in the two murders he committed in Dallas on November 22nd.)

But, then too, I've known for many years that the individual named Cakebread has never been any good at all when it comes to mathematics, especially addition. He takes after his fellow goofy conspiracy fantasist, Ben Holmes, in that regard.

"Adding Up" the various unusual things that Lee Oswald did on 11/21 and 11/22

Translation for "adding up" is making assumptions to "connect" one thing somehow "unusual" with another thing somehow "unusual".

But perhaps you can help us out here, David.

For about six months now, I have been asking Richard Smith to provide evidence for his claims that (1) Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the shots were fired and (2) that he came down the stairs unnoticed within roughly 75 seconds after the last shot. Richard told me to look at up in the WC report, but I couldn't find any evidence to support either claim in Chapter 4, which deals with the assassin.

All I could find is that the WC somehow considered the presence of the MC rifle (allegedly bought by Oswald) on the 6th floor as proof that Oswald was there when the shots were fired, which is, on so many levels, completely absurd.

Do you, David, know of any evidence that puts Oswald on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the shots were fired and/or that he did indeed come down the stairs unnoticed within 75 seconds of the last shot?