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Author Topic: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.  (Read 11119 times)

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2022, 04:25:10 PM »
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And no doubt the anger generated  by Russiagate was amplified by the hypocrisy over time and was a cause for Jan 6th

I think that the fake conspiracy theories including "Russian collusion" that were perpetuated by the Dems eroded trust in the government and created a lot of anger about the election.  Combined with the abuses of the COVID situation to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that were most advantageous to the Dems and Trump's stupid rhetoric.  Nevertheless, anyone who committed a crime should have been held accountable.  And most were.  If only that same level of devotion and resources to enforce the rule of law were applied equally to Hunter Biden, the border, and criminals rampaging in every American city, the US would be a lot better off. 

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2022, 04:25:10 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2023, 11:58:21 PM »

I guess you believe they interfered in 16?

Not in a large way. Of course, any world leader, or any publication, or posts made on the internet, or anyone, can effect votes by the statements they made.

The Russians have not controlled any election in the U. S. during the 21st Century, or at any time that I know of. They just want us to think that someone controls the elections. And that someone can be anyone, including themselves. I typical tactic of those who oppose democracy. The best attack, is to suggest that democracy is an illusion. By arguing that elections are fraudulent, or a deep state is really running things, possibly as a result of an assassination. Lots of techniques, all involving the notion that a nation's democracy is an illusion.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2023, 12:46:03 PM »
Not in a large way. Of course, any world leader, or any publication, or posts made on the internet, or anyone, can effect votes by the statements they made.

The Russians have not controlled any election in the U. S. during the 21st Century, or at any time that I know of. They just want us to think that someone controls the elections. And that someone can be anyone, including themselves. I typical tactic of those who oppose democracy. The best attack, is to suggest that democracy is an illusion. By arguing that elections are fraudulent, or a deep state is really running things, possibly as a result of an assassination. Lots of techniques, all involving the notion that a nation's democracy is an illusion.

Blaming Russia for those increasing attitudes about American democracy among the American public has always seemed like a cop-out to me.

The solution is for Congress to hold the government and the Press accountable for their mistakes and bad behavior (like Frank Church and others did in the 1970s), not to scapegoat foreign adversaries.

We're not a healthy democracy if powerful people are shielded from accountability.

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2023, 12:46:03 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2023, 02:09:45 PM »
Blaming Russia for those increasing attitudes about American democracy among the American public has always seemed like a cop-out to me.

The solution is for Congress to hold the government and the Press accountable for their mistakes and bad behavior (like Frank Church and others did in the 1970s), not to scapegoat foreign adversaries.

We're not a healthy democracy if powerful people are shielded from accountability.

This was never about Russia.  It was always about Trump.  The Dems concocted this fake plot as a means to undermine Trump.  They spent most of his presidency investigating this in an attempt to derail his presidency.  It was election denying on a scale that Trump never could dream of.  They knew it was fake.  Making Russia out as the evil empire for years then provided grounds for massive military intervention in Ukraine.  Something Obama had refused to do when Russia invaded Crimea.  Another endless war to replace Afghanistan.  So a win-win for the corrupt establishment politicians.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2023, 03:11:21 PM »
This was never about Russia.  It was always about Trump.  The Dems concocted this fake plot as a means to undermine Trump.  They spent most of his presidency investigating this in an attempt to derail his presidency.

I agree on that. Rather than address the reasons why so many voters agreed with Trump and even Bernie Sanders' critiques of the political establishment, foreign policy and trade deals, they pivoted to blaming "Russian propaganda" for the anti-establishment mood of Americans who didn't want Hillary Clinton to be President. 

And the fearmongering about Russia continues to be weaponized today to discourage criticism of US policies towards Ukraine. Anyone who doesn't unconditionally support Ukraine or offers the slightest criticism of Biden's policy of unconditional support is labeled "pro-Putin" by some politicians and people in the mainstream media. It's intended to shut down and discourage legitimate policy debates. 

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2023, 03:11:21 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2023, 11:22:31 AM »
Russia's Prigozhin admits interfering in U.S. elections

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/russias-prigozhin-admits-interfering-us-elections-2022-11-07/

Russia was desperate to help Republicans. In hopes that will reduce aid to Ukraine (fat chance regardless of which party has the majority in the House). That is why the withdraw from Kherson was delayed to after the U. S. Elections. Russia accepted extra casualties in hopes of helping the Republicans.

Russia claims to interfere in U. S. Elections. A spokesman said:

In the 2022 U. S. Elections, the Russians did not remove both kidneys and the liver. Hell, they didn't even trim the fingernails.

Russia want to do two things.
    1. Interfere as must as possible in U. S. Elections. Which does not appear to amount to much.
    2. And then not keep this a secret but to broadcast this 'information'.

The goal? To undermine the people's confidence in elections. Undermining the people's confidence in elections is more important then interfering. Because, if true, releasing this information would allow America to take action to reduce this interference in the future. But hopefully, there are not too many people who fall for this. I certainly hope none at this forum.

You should be embarrassed and ashamed to post this Russian propaganda. Good grief, and you talk about "crazy conspiracy theories," yet you peddle this nuttiness.

And, just FYI, if the Russians were going to help anyone in an election, it certainly would not be the Republicans, because the Republicans have been the ones calling for us to give Ukraine fighter jets and long-range missile systems. The Republicans have, entirely correctly, been critical of Biden's incremental, piecemeal approach to helping Ukraine, not to mention his feckless actions before the invasion.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2023, 05:02:12 AM »
People here have miss-stated what I was saying in my original post.

I did not claim that Russia has controlled any of our elections, not in 2016, not in 2020, not in 2022.

What I said is that Russians would like us to believe, that they, to a certain extent, control our elections. They would like us to believe that 'others' control the election. Be the 'others' the Deep State within our own country, or themselves. It doesn't matter. As long as we suspect that others are controlling our elections, and so cause us to lose faith in Democracy.

What Russians can do, and have done, is issue false news reports intended to help certain candidates, like Trump. Indeed, any entity, foreign or domestic, can issue information in hopes of influencing voters. I don't see this as a big deal.

And the 2022 election results show clearly, that Russia does not control our elections. Neither by altering the vote totals, nor by having a huge influence on how people vote. If they did, they would have surely caused the Trump candidates to win, not lose.

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2023, 05:02:12 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Russians Interference with the 2022 Elections.
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2023, 05:28:39 AM »
You should be embarrassed and ashamed to post this Russian propaganda. Good grief, and you talk about "crazy conspiracy theories," yet you peddle this nuttiness.

You have miss-stated what I was saying. What I was saying was:
1. Russia would like to control our elections.
This effort has not succeeded.
2. In any case, whether their efforts to control succeed or fail, they would like us to believe that they control our elections.

All Russians can do is influence our elections, by putting out false information. As anyone else can do, either from within America, or outside America, including other countries. I don't see this as a big deal.

And, just FYI, if the Russians were going to help anyone in an election, it certainly would not be the Republicans, because the Republicans have been the ones calling for us to give Ukraine fighter jets and long-range missile systems. The Republicans have, entirely correctly, been critical of Biden's incremental, piecemeal approach to helping Ukraine, not to mention his feckless actions before the invasion.

Both the Republican and the Democratic leadership have been calling for us to send more aid to Ukraine, like fighter jets and long-range weapons, which I fully support. President Biden is more cautious than I would like to see. But as least he does support Ukraine.

But I, and most people, fear that if American support for Ukraine falters, it will come from the Republican side. Because Trump does not support Ukraine. And Trump influences the Republican base a lot. Which may cause the Republican leadership in Congress to falter. That has not happen yet and I hope it doesn't. It's time for Republicans to embrace their old values like we had under Reagan and stand up to Russian aggression. I hope they will continue to do so, despite Trump's efforts.

We can see this on our forum. It is the big Trump supporters, like Richard Smith, who want us to give up on Ukraine as a lost cause. In Congress, the few who call on us to greatly reduce our aid to Ukraine are the hard-line Trump supporters. But this is one 'Lost Cause' that I fully support, and which I do not believe is really a 'Lost Cause', at least not until Russia shows a lot more conventional power than they have been able to show so far.

Russia has always had the numbers on its side. But it has not always won all its wars. Not the Crimea War. Not the Russo-Japanese War. Not World War I. Nor the War in Afghanistan. Despite what Richard Smith would want us to believe, Russian victory is not inevitable.

Russian power does not come from its current production of weapons. It comes from the years of high production during the Soviet era, when it was still possible for them to produce a lot of weapons and a lot of ammunition. But they are burning through this surplus at a high rate and show no capability to replace this, at the current rate of production, for over one hundred years.

So, I am for the support we have given Ukraine, and we should do more. We should not accept Russia outgunning Ukraine by a large margin, like 5 to one or whatever it is, but increase our supply of ammunition so they can at least nearly match Russia's. Let's at least give them a fraction of the support we lavished on Afghanistan and continue to do give to Iraq. And not fear Russia response but instead give Ukraine longer range weapons, with superior accuracy, which is also important. Give them the weapons that can take out the bridge to Crimea (the actual bridge, and not just the 'Land Bridge') and sink Russian ships that try to supply Crimea, once it gets cut off, which I hope for this year.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 05:56:33 AM by Joe Elliott »