Now What Mr. Trump?


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Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2022, 03:12:23 AM »

David Frum (The Atlantic) wrote:

    "Trump led his party from loss to loss.
          He lost the popular vote in 2016. He lost the House in 2018. He lost
     the popular vote and the Electoral College in 2020. He lost the Senate
     in 2021.
          And yet, despite all this loserdom, his party whimpered and submitted.
          ...

His party whimpered and submitted, not due to the power of Trump's personality, but because more than 50% of Republicans want Trump and nobody else besides Trump. Why? Not despite all the outrageous things he has said and done but because of them.

He made it clear that he supports racism (Charlottesville 2017 "There are good people on both sides").
He tried to overturn an election in 2020, which implies he will do whatever it takes to stay in power for the rest of his life.
He seems to be guilty of various crimes, which only increases the odds he will do whatever it takes to seize and hold on to power.

Combined with the changing demographics in the country, the percentage of people of mostly European descent getting less and less, means that to them, Fascism is the answer. They can't win elections in the long run. And time is running out.

I don't believe Trump "fooled" millions into believing the election was stolen. They just want to pretend to believe this so they have moral reasons to riot, seize ballot boxes, to do whatever it takes nullify elections. And Trump is the only candidate that they have good reason to believe will assist them in this endeavor.

This 51+ per cent of the Republican party is a great danger to Democracy in America. They are as great a danger as the German voters who supported Hitler were to German Democracy in the early 1930's. They will be a danger to American Democracy for some time after Trump has died. When he dies, or clearly proven he cannot win (I think the 2024 election will do that) they will look for another Trump. And I am certain they will find him. They were not such a big danger while they were unaware of each other. When they were unaware that tens of millions of Americans also secretly held these views as well. But they are aware now and a danger now for the rest of my life and beyond. It may be a blessing that, for the most part, the Greatest Generation did not live long enough to see these events take place. What the hell did they fight for if Trump prevails?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2022, 03:12:23 AM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2022, 03:24:42 AM »

With the clear disaster than Trump has been in 2022, in what should have been a great off year election for the Republicans becoming a toss up. Will the Republican leadership turn against Trump? Trump insisted on endorsing weak candidates. So there would be no doubt who they owned their election to. And will support him the next time he needs an election nullified. And this has cost them seats, particularly in the Senate. They know they should. But they won't. The MAGA base, which takes up more than 50 per cent of the Republican party, will insist on staying with Trump. The Republican leaders, whatever they are saying today, will cave again. They will feel compelled to go against their better judgment. It will be:

It's been a hell of a ride, but count me out. No, count me in. No, count me out. No, count me back in again, please.

This clown parade will continue to produce more disasters for the Republicans, with an outside chance of a disaster for Democracy.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 01:18:47 AM »

As far as I can tell, all seven Election Deniers, running for Secretary of State in seven states, have all lost or in the process of losing.

The Election Deniers best hopes are in Arizona and Nevada. The Election Denier, Mark Finchem, in Arizona, is clearly going down to defeat. The Election Denier, Jim Marchant, has a very slim 2,000 vote lead, but with the bulk of the uncounted votes in the counties containing Las Vagas and Reno, he clearly appears doomed to me.

Also, the Election Denier Doug Mastriano running for Governor of Pennsylvania has clearly lost. This is significant because he would appoint the Secretary of State for Pennsylvania and if elected, could control the 2024 election as if he was the Secretary of State.

It appears America has dodged a bullet. If any of these clowns got elected, the 2024 votes in their state could be nullified, declared fraudulent, and appoint a Trump slate to the Electoral College. The could do  the same for any race in their state. The Election Denier and GOP candidate in Wisconsin for Governor Tim Michels was recorded (it appears he thought he was off mike) that if elected the GOP would never lose another race. If this happens, Democracy could die in those states.

Of course, there is a backup. The courts. But the courts are ultimately controlled by the conservative (6-3) U. S. Supreme Court. Would they step in to save Democracy if an Election Denier fraudulently tossed out the votes? I believe they would. The prestige they could earn in history as being the court that saved Democracy, would be immense. Their striking down of Roe vs. Wade would likely become a footnote of history. But for now, it appears we don't have to worry about that.

Of course, a devious Election Denier serving as Governor or Secretary of State could, perhaps side step the courts. Wait until the last minute, in early December before suddenly announcing that he had just confirmed what he suspected, that the election was a fraud. And awarding victory to Trump. In my opinion, if this is done, the courts should automatically strike this down. A Secretary of State must give the courts enough time to review their decision. If they don't, the votes must count.

In any case, this all seems mute. For another two years, Democracy seems secure. But it must be secured, by the voters, every two years. The election of Secretary of State is no longer a minor election. For years to come, it is the most important election. More important, in my mind, than that for Senator or Representative. A mistake made there can only hurt for two or six years and is correctable. One misstep in an election for Secretary of State could permanently destroy Democracy in that state. Democracy is the best form of government but is fragile. One bad election can destroy it. Just ask the folks who voted for Hitler just that one time. That's all it took.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 01:18:47 AM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2022, 01:36:41 AM »

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63563862

Quote
If Mr. DeSantis were to announce a presidential bid, Mr. Trump said he would reveal "things about him that won't be very flattering - I know more about him than anybody - other than, perhaps, his wife".

Donald Trump. President, Traitor, Insurrectionist, Fascist, and now, Blackmailer.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2022, 03:21:27 AM »
Just ask the folks who voted for Hitler just that one time. That's all it took.

My understanding is that most Germans of that era didn't mourn the demise of democracy there. They were looking for a strongman to succeed Bismarck. That speaks to the long list of autocratic leaders they historically placed their trust in. By the time Hitler made his move, the German legislature wasn't really functional. The surrender terms imposed by the Allied Powers after WWI and the subsequent excessive inflation was seen as the failure of democracy. By 1933, Germans generally felt outside Western Democracy (though they admired the culture of America and the U.K., and kept up with technology and medical advances).

I have to wonder how much of the German Strongman tradition did Trump's ancestors soak up.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2022, 03:05:46 AM »

My understanding is that most Germans of that era didn't mourn the demise of democracy there. They were looking for a strongman to succeed Bismarck. That speaks to the long list of autocratic leaders they historically placed their trust in. By the time Hitler made his move, the German legislature wasn't really functional. The surrender terms imposed by the Allied Powers after WWI and the subsequent excessive inflation was seen as the failure of democracy. By 1933, Germans generally felt outside Western Democracy (though they admired the culture of America and the U.K., and kept up with technology and medical advances).

I have to wonder how much of the German Strongman tradition did Trump's ancestors soak up.

I don't know if he 'inherited' his Authoritarian beliefs, but his ex-wife, Ivana Trump, alleged said he kept a copy of Hitler's speeches by his bedside. I don't think this is passed down through genes but instead some personalities are attracted to Authoritarian beliefs, particularly if they imagine themselves as becoming a dictator.

Germany actually had a long tradition of Democratic thought, or at least a similar philosophy. Two thousand years ago, German tribes had trouble being united against the Romans because they didn't think their should be a permanent ruler. Arminius, with difficulty, managed to get the tribes united enough to defeat Varus in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, but was later assassinated for trying to seize too much control over his fellow Germans. Many Germans tried to establish Democracy but were squashed in the 'Revolution" of 1848. Some of them escaped to America where they generally supported Democracy and in many cases, fought for the Union.

I think the Kaiser did not accidentally slide into World War I, but caused it to prevent Germany from adopting Democracy. In post World War I Germany, many in Germany supported Democracy, despite:

1. President Wilson insisting that he would only negotiate with Democratic representatives. A disastrous decision, since it was liberal politicians, not the German Kaiser or his generals, who got the blame for negotiating an unfavorable peace, which they had no choice but to accept. That burden should have been placed on General Ludendorff.

2. The Great Depression, largely brought on by President Hoover's attempts to control the economy, not by the failure of Free Enterprise, caused such suffering in Germany that the German people (well, around 32 to 38 per cent of them) were willing to abandon Democracy and try Authoritarianism.

Since 1945 the people of Germany have embraced Democracy, certainly much more than the people of East Germany ever embraced Communism, despite the force the Russians exerted.

I don't think Germans have a natural tendency to choose Authoritarianism over Democracy. It just happened that Authoritarianism happened to win out during certain crossroads. Probably more due to Geography than genes. Britain had an easier path to Democracy being an island country.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2022, 03:05:46 AM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2022, 11:14:47 PM »

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Trump demands new elections. And while he's at it, he should demand new primary and general elections. But this time, not endorse losers.

At his daughter's wedding tomorrow, I wonder if he will forget himself and instead of toasting the bride and groom demand new elections in Arizona.

This guy is too much. I would be embarrassed to admit I support this guy. I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from some of his recent supporters on this forum.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2022, 02:07:55 AM »

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Top Three Reasons Donald Trump is calling for the Elections of 2022 to be re-done:

3. He forget to call on the Proud Boys to screen the voters.

2. He has witnesses who saw 2,000 mules, real mules this time, dumping Blake Masters ballots into the Grand Canyon.

1. He didn't realize that his wife picks losers, something most people figured out 17 years ago.

Feel free to add to this list.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2022, 02:07:55 AM »


 

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