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Author Topic: Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !  (Read 8563 times)

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 04:22:13 AM »
   Rob , once again you cover so much material in your postings and this posting says a lot about the Motorcycle Policemen and what they went through that day. The quotes from Martin and Hargis about the spray of blood and matter that hit them says once again that the JFK headshot came from the front. Rob , thanks man . You bring so much to this forum. I appreciate you , Rob !     Mike

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 04:22:13 AM »


Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 07:15:11 PM »
Pat S.   Your posting on this subject covers a lot of ground which is very good. I went to your site and started to read as much as I could and will continue to do so.  I'm sure it had to be traumatic for Hargis being that close to what happened to JFK & Connally in the Limo. when I read in your post that the Limo (as per Hargis in an interview by Whitney) might have been stopped for 3-4 seconds and maybe 5-6 seconds after the 1st shot, but you won't find that in the Warren Commission report.( When asked if it said the Limo stopped)" Ah no I don't think it didn't , you've seen a rolling stop have you ? It's going less than 1 mile an hour ?...Well that's what he was doing he wasn't completely stopped or dead still." Pat , are there more witnesses on maybe how long the limo was stopped or going through a rolling stop (very slow) ? It's good to have you on the forum.

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2018, 07:23:03 PM »
 Perhaps confirming the obvious but if the final shot came from the snipers nest it would have been close to 180 degrees and we would not have expected large amounts of material to go to the left of the limo?

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2018, 08:18:01 PM »
Matt , I feel that you are right with that assumption. The Z-film seems to only show the blood spatter to be up and towards the front of JFK and that it only happens in Z 313. Dino Brugioni told Douglas Horne that when they made the 2 Briefing boards on Late Saturday night the 23rd of November 1963 from the original Zapruder film there were 12 to 15 prints on the 2 boards total . Brugioni and his crew left early Sunday morning the 24th an not known to them, another crew came in Sunday night and made up 4 briefing boards which are now in the archives today. Dino's 2 briefing boards must have shown something that was not supposed to be seen , so later Sunday night the new crew came in and made their set of 4 briefing boards which they finished early on Monday morning the 25th of November which was the day of JFK's funeral. Brugioni also said that blood spatter from the head shot was 3 to 4 feet in the air and was seen on several more frames after frame 313 . Brugioni believes that the Zapruder film that resides in CIA's Archives today is not the film he saw the day after the Assassination.

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Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 06:39:45 PM »
As the limo came to a stop , this seemed to be the point that the fatal head shot on JFK was made .

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 06:39:45 PM »


Online Chris Bristow

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 03:11:18 AM »
At 20 seconds Hargis says the limo slowed. But the most interesting part is when he says "this is not for public viewing'. First he said the limo slowed but then says it "came to almost a complete stop".


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2018, 05:15:15 AM »
 The following link shows some evidence of some serious breaking or slowing around 313

« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 05:17:44 AM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2018, 08:09:51 PM »

 It is really exasperating to read these comments from people saying that the fatal shot came from the front.  I have yet to see anyone posting the proof that the shot came from the rear, when there is more proof of it than anything else! 

 The Harper fragment and the David Burris fragment were both found several yards AHEAD of where the limousine was located at the time of the fatal shot--not to mention the piece of skull Seymour Weitzman saw someone "lifting from the gutter on Elm street".  The majority of the head matter landed on the Connally's, Greer, Kellerman, the hood, sun visors(both sides) windshield, interior of the car, the side rails--both sides of the car and trunk lid.  All you have to do is read the testimony of Robert Frazier.  The top of the president's head--not the rear or side--was blown off.  Mrs. Kennedy's own words to Theodore White one week(7 days) after the assassination reveals this. As for the motorcycle officers, look closely and you can see the fine mist("cloud"/"plume") that  Bobby Hargis describes that he drove into, and Martin said he didn't even see the fatal shot, nor did he feel anything land on him.  He only described what he saw on his uniform, helmet and motorcycle, later, after directing traffic.  The display of head matter in the Zapruder film shows the top of the head flying through the air towards the front. Someone (I believe it was Dr.Lattimer) estimated them traveling at around 80 MPH, and it's obvious that these are skull fragments.  James Altgens stated during an interview--not to mention his WC testimony--that head matter flew in his direction.  He stated during one interview (possibly in Richard Trask's Pictures Of the Pain ) that matter landed near his feet.  Nowhere in the Zapruder film do we see skull fragments or large fragments of head matter flying to the rear of the limousine, and no skull fragments were found or seen flying to the rear.  The majority of head matter flew forward, a mist captured in the wind wafts to rear and is what landed on Hargis and Martin. 

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2018, 08:09:51 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2018, 09:43:15 PM »
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It is really exasperating to read these comments from people saying that the fatal shot came from the front.  I have yet to see anyone posting the proof that the shot came from the rear, when there is more proof of it than anything else! 

 The Harper fragment and the David Burris fragment were both found several yards AHEAD of where the limousine was located at the time of the fatal shot--not to mention the piece of skull Seymour Weitzman saw someone "lifting from the gutter on Elm street".  The majority of the head matter landed on the Connally's, Greer, Kellerman, the hood, sun visors(both sides) windshield, interior of the car, the side rails--both sides of the car and trunk lid.  All you have to do is read the testimony of Robert Frazier.  The top of the president's head--not the rear or side--was blown off.  Mrs. Kennedy's own words to Theodore White one week(7 days) after the assassination reveals this. As for the motorcycle officers, look closely and you can see the fine mist("cloud"/"plume") that  Bobby Hargis describes that he drove into, and Martin said he didn't even see the fatal shot, nor did he feel anything land on him.  He only described what he saw on his uniform, helmet and motorcycle, later, after directing traffic.  The display of head matter in the Zapruder film shows the top of the head flying through the air towards the front. Someone (I believe it was Dr.Lattimer) estimated them traveling at around 80 MPH, and it's obvious that these are skull fragments.  James Altgens stated during an interview--not to mention his WC testimony--that head matter flew in his direction.  He stated during one interview (possibly in Richard Trask's Pictures Of the Pain ) that matter landed near his feet.  Nowhere in the Zapruder film do we see skull fragments or large fragments of head matter flying to the rear of the limousine, and no skull fragments were found or seen flying to the rear.  The majority of head matter flew forward, a mist captured in the wind wafts to rear and is what landed on Hargis and Martin.

 Citations please!

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 10:32:09 PM »
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Citations please!


So, you aren't familiar with ANY of what I said?

 Robert Frazier Warren Commission testimony. Graphic description of the blood and head matter all over the car as well as bullet fragments and damage to the windshield.  Look it up.

  Mrs. Kennedy 's description of the head wound on top of the head:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 Both John and Nellie Connally describe head matter landing on them, John Connally describing a "chunk of the President's brain as almost as my thumbnail" landed on his trousers.  Read his Warren Commission testimony . It's in there.

 Mrs. Connally described it merely as "matter all over the car and both of us".  She stated that it felt like "spent buckshot" when it landed on her.  Read her Warren Commission testimony.  it's in there.

Roy Kellerman described the head matter as "moist sawdust" landing on him.  Read his Warren Commission testimony. It's in there.
 
 Bill Greer never mentioned feeling anything strike him, but the fact that the windshield directly in front of him was blood spattered/splattered as well as the windshield being struck on the inside by a fragment of the bullet to the head of the president, indicates he could never have escaped being splattered/spattered with blood, brain and possibly skull fragments.

  You will have to do your own search on Billy Harper re: the "Harper Fragment"

   B.J. Martin Warren commission testimony-available online  Same with his testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, also available online. 

   Bobby Hargis Warren Commission testimony and Clay Shaw trial testimony (see above)

    David Burris.  I have two 8x10's taken of the area in Dealey Plaza which Burris himself highlighted where he found the skull fragments.  I will post these photographs here on this forum. 

 Seymour Weitzman Warren Commission testimony. He mentions having found a fragment that was lying in the street 8-12 inches from the curb on the south side of Elm street. I made an error saying that Weitzman found it in the gutter.  I mixed this up with the story about Weitzman in the book The Day Kennedy Was Shot by Jim Bishop.
 
 I do not have access to any of my assassination books, they are packed away, so I cannot tell you (as I indicated) exactly where James Altgens mentioned head matter landing near his feet, but, his Warren Commission testimony does mention him saying that matter came in his direction. As i mentioned, I believe it may be in Richard Trask's Pictures Of the Pain.

   

     

   
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:41:40 PM by Steve Barber »

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Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 10:32:09 PM »