Missing Transcripts…


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Online Charles Collins

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Missing Transcripts…
« on: September 30, 2022, 04:27:50 PM »
This is a snip from page 361 of “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens:


“Secretary of State Rusk testified that after the assassination “there was very considerable concern in Cuba as to whether they would be held responsible and what the effect of that might be on their own position and their own safety.” Slawson told me recently that some of the confidential sources on which Rusk may have based this assessment were still undisclosed as of December 2011. In the Warren Commission files at the National Archives there is a folder of materials from the CIA. Under a cover sheet identifying certain transcripts of the intercepted calls from the Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, the folder contains the transcripts that the commission had seen and relied upon. Next in the folder there is a cover sheet entitled “Transcript of telephone calls between two high officials of the Cuban Government.” Under the cover sheet, there is no transcript. Whether these telephone calls related to Cuba’s reaction to the assassination or some other matter remains unknown in the absence of the transcript. Whatever agency concluded that these transcripts remain classified should have been more careful and removed the cover sheet from the folder as well.65”


Does anyone know whether or not the missing transcripts have been declassified since Howard wrote his book?

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Missing Transcripts…
« on: September 30, 2022, 04:27:50 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2022, 09:15:55 PM »
This is a snip from page 361 of “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens:


“Secretary of State Rusk testified that after the assassination “there was very considerable concern in Cuba as to whether they would be held responsible and what the effect of that might be on their own position and their own safety.” Slawson told me recently that some of the confidential sources on which Rusk may have based this assessment were still undisclosed as of December 2011. In the Warren Commission files at the National Archives there is a folder of materials from the CIA. Under a cover sheet identifying certain transcripts of the intercepted calls from the Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, the folder contains the transcripts that the commission had seen and relied upon. Next in the folder there is a cover sheet entitled “Transcript of telephone calls between two high officials of the Cuban Government.” Under the cover sheet, there is no transcript. Whether these telephone calls related to Cuba’s reaction to the assassination or some other matter remains unknown in the absence of the transcript. Whatever agency concluded that these transcripts remain classified should have been more careful and removed the cover sheet from the folder as well.65”


Does anyone know whether or not the missing transcripts have been declassified since Howard wrote his book?
Charles: Way late on this but here's what I have. I vaguely remembered the account below from Russo's book but couldn't find it. I believe Willens is referring to an intercepted telephone call between the Cuban Ambassador to Mexico, Joaquin Armas, and the Cuban President, Osvaldo Dorticos Dorrado after the assassination where they discussed the matter, e.g,. Oswald's visit to the Consulate, et cetera.

This is from Russo's "Live by the Sword": "In a flurry of calls, all tapped by the CIA, Cuban President Osvaldo Dorticos phoned his representative in Mexico City, Ambassador Joaquin Hernandez Armas, and wanted to know what Duran had told the police. 'Had the police threatened her so that she would make a statement that the Consulate gave money to that man- the American?' The Cuban President repeated the question numerous times, just to make sure Hernandez understood. Hernandez said he debriefed Duran and the answer was no."

The transcript, if this is what Willens' is referring to, is here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=2167#relPageId=1&search=Dorticos



« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 01:29:10 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2022, 12:08:14 AM »
Charles: Way late on this but here's what I have. I vaguely remembered the account below from Russo's book but couldn't find it. I believe Willens is referring to an intercepted telephone call between the Cuban Ambassador to Mexico, Joaquin Armas, and the Cuban President, Osvaldo Dorticos Dorrado after the assassination where they discussed the matter, e.g,. Oswald's visit to the Consulate, et cetera.

This is from Russo's "Live by the Sword": "In a flurry of calls, all tapped by the CIA, Cuban President Osvaldo Dorticos phone his representative in Mexico City, Ambassador Joaquin Hernandez Armas, and wanted to know what Duran had told the police. 'Had the police threatened her so that she would make a statement that the Consulate gave money to that man- the American?' The Cuban President repeated the question numerous time, just to make sure Hernandez understood. Hernandez said he debriefed Duran and the answer was no."

The transcript, if this is what Willens' is referring to, is here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=2167#relPageId=1&search=Dorticos


Interesting, thanks Steve! 

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2022, 12:08:14 AM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2022, 01:09:43 AM »

Interesting, thanks Steve!
The transcript was released in 1995 by the ARRB so it may not be the 2011 transcript Willens refers to. As Russo says, there were a series of calls between Cuban officials in Mexico City and Havana after the assassination. Willens may be referring to another one.

There are cables that show the CIA was desperately worried about what Duran might have told the Mexican police and with that the consequences of any Cuban role in the assassination. The Cuban officials were worried as well.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 01:11:30 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2022, 01:37:27 AM »
The transcript was released in 1995 by the ARRB so it may not be the 2011 transcript Willens refers to. As Russo says, there were a series of calls between Cuban officials in Mexico City and Havana after the assassination. Willens may be referring to another one.

There are cables that show the CIA was desperately worried about what Duran might have told the Mexican police and with that the consequences of any Cuban role in the assassination. The Cuban officials were worried as well.


I agree with you. And there are plenty of people who seem to suspect that we haven’t been told everything regarding the Mexico City events…

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2022, 05:32:51 PM »

I agree with you. And there are plenty of people who seem to suspect that we haven’t been told everything regarding the Mexico City events…
Right, but I'm not clear as to how one goes from Mexico City in late September to Dallas in November. There are lots of middle steps that need to be made. Oswald got tragically lucky; I don't think this was all or somewhat planned somehow in Mexico City.

WC staffer David Slawson, who investigated the MC matter, thinks Oswald met with people that encouraged him to shoot JFK. Author Philip Shenon on Slawson: "Slawson said he is now convinced the commission was the victim of a “massive cover-up” by the CIA and other agencies to hide evidence that might have identified people in Mexico City who knew and encouraged Oswald to carry out his threat when he returned to the United States."

So some Cuban said to Oswald, "JFK's attacking us, he's a fascist, he needs to be stopped." How does that encouragement lead to Dallas? I don't see it.

Full piece here: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/jfk-assassination-lee-harvey-oswald-mexico-116195/


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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2022, 05:32:51 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2022, 06:27:56 PM »
Right, but I'm not clear as to how one goes from Mexico City in late September to Dallas in November. There are lots of middle steps that need to be made. Oswald got tragically lucky; I don't think this was all or somewhat planned somehow in Mexico City.

WC staffer David Slawson, who investigated the MC matter, thinks Oswald met with people that encouraged him to shoot JFK. Author Philip Shenon on Slawson: "Slawson said he is now convinced the commission was the victim of a “massive cover-up” by the CIA and other agencies to hide evidence that might have identified people in Mexico City who knew and encouraged Oswald to carry out his threat when he returned to the United States."

So some Cuban said to Oswald, "JFK's attacking us, he's a fascist, he needs to be stopped." How does that encouragement lead to Dallas? I don't see it.

Full piece here: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/jfk-assassination-lee-harvey-oswald-mexico-116195/



I agree, there were quite a few (too many, it seems to me) instances of happenstance that appear to have brought all the elements together in Dealey Plaza for the assassination to have happened via a pre-planned conspiracy.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2022, 07:50:51 PM »


I agree, there were quite a few (too many, it seems to me) instances of happenstance that appear to have brought all the elements together in Dealey Plaza for the assassination to have happened via a pre-planned conspiracy.
Among other things (like you, I have a long list), I don't see how Oswald could be framed, that the conspirators/framers could know where he was at 12:30. The rifle, the shells, the bag are all found before his co-workers are interviewed about him. If they give him an alibi, if they say he was with them, then the whole plan implodes. And this is murdering the president not a 7/11 clerk. Everyone is going to be interviewed again and again and again. You can't keep all of these people quiet.

So how did they know this? I don't see it. What's the backup plan if they give him an alibi? The rifle's been found; do they just make it disappear? Make paperwork showing it belonged to someone else? How did that person get in the building?

It's a long long list of things to control, things that you can't. The conspiracists just say "the government" or "the CIA" and think that's sufficient evidence. Because the CIA did this or that bad thing they could do this bad thing. Guatemala, Arbenz, MK-Ultra, Castro plots and this. But this is not like those other things. This involves so many people, so many layers, so many things that you just can't control. And then cover it all up? Even now? No, sorry that's a view of a world that I don't think can exist.



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Re: Missing Transcripts…
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2022, 07:50:51 PM »


 

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