Jack Ruby was hit by the car…

[David Von Pein]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Joe Elliott, in his two posts in this thread, is just kidding around and having a little fun at the expense of overly dramatic conspiracy theorists.

Aren't you, Joe?

Anyway, I think Joe has probably got his tongue in his cheek in this discussion. Because to think that this news about Jack Ruby's leg just barely getting grazed by the barely-moving police car is (to quote Joe Elliott) "the most surprising fact about the case that I have ever heard at this forum, or any JFK forum" is a statement that seems a tad bit over the top....don't you think?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I don't know much about various CT claims, like the details about the involvement of the Texas Oil men, or the claims about Antonio Veciana. Still, to me, having Tracy Parnell shoot down a CT claim is like a "Dog bites Man" story. I may be good research, but not a super interesting story. Not like the "Hitman" getting bumped into while he was bumping off Oswald.

What did Antonio Veciana get from his claims? Well, he did get an Wikipedia article about him. I don't think he would have gotten one without his claims.

Sure, if you judge Veciana's claims versus the general public's knowledge on the assassination I doubt more than one out of a thousand - ten thousand? - people know who Veciana was much less what he claimed. Of course, we can say that about most things we discuss here.

But during the "hot" phase of the JFK conspiracy cause in the 1970s and early 1980s - when we had more than 70% of the public believing there was a conspiracy - this was a major part of the "CIA killed JFK" allegation that was promoted. This was the Church Committee, HSCA, "CIA Family Jewels", period. From the accounts I've read, this piece, for example, caused a controversy in the country:  https://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/GaetonFonzi/WhoKilledJFK.html

It's still a major part of the claim today that Oswald was "connected" (whatever that really means) to the CIA. And from that "the CIA" was behind the assassination. If you disprove the "Phillips was with Oswald" allegation, as Tracy has done for me, then where's the evidence for this relationship? Atsugi? The "Oswald Project" claim? What is left? In the larger world this is a small footnote at most. But I think in "JFK assassination world" it's at least a chapter.

As to shooting down the conspiracy claims: well, this is a whack-a-mole exercise with these people. You knock down three claims and another three will pop up. Of course, they won't accept your evidence disproving the first three either. As in: Oswald was impersonated and didn't really go to Mexico City because the CIA had no photos of him. They reject all of the other evidence presented by the CIA or government that he went there as fake but will suddenly accept CIA photos showing Oswald there? Sorry, I don't think so; they'll say they are fake too.

It's like a game for them where they think they are scoring points with their incessant "whatabouts."

[Joe Elliott]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Joe Elliott, in his two posts in this thread, is just kidding around and having a little fun at the expense of overly dramatic conspiracy theorists.

Aren't you, Joe?

Anyway, I think Joe has probably got his tongue in his cheek in this discussion. Because to think that this news about Jack Ruby's leg just barely getting grazed by the barely-moving police car is (to quote Joe Elliott) "the most surprising fact about the case that I have ever heard at this forum, or any JFK forum" is a statement that seems a tad bit over the top....don't you think?

My first post was quite serious. Ruby being bumped by a car while killing Oswald was something I had not heard of before and I do find this interesting. I am surprised that this was not more generally known. Certainly not be me.

In my second post, I wasn't pretending to be a CTer. I was merely pointing out, that if there was a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy to murder JFK, that if large portions of the Dallas Police were trying to kill Oswald, it would have been an incredible foul up for the car being used to pick up Oswald to bump into the hitman, Ruby. To bump Ruby aside almost before he could bump off Oswald. Of course, I don't believe that.

Clearly, the police were nervous about the transfer of Oswald. They wished their supervisor had not told the press in advance. Which he did because the press pressured him about Oswald's black eye and it would look bad if the police didn't do everything involving Oswald in secretive ways. Of course, they should move Oswald in secretive ways. That was a mistake.

But, under the circumstances, they did the best they could. The tried to move in a car to pick up Oswald as soon as they could. But the press was in the way of the car and didn't want to budge so they won't miss any photo opportunities. And the presence of so many suit wearing press allowed Ruby, who usually wore a suit and did so that day, to blend in. The car got into position just a couple of seconds too late, but still managed to bump Ruby.

[Charles Collins]

My first post was quite serious. Ruby being bumped by a car while killing Oswald was something I had not heard of before and I do find this interesting. I am surprised that this was not more generally known. Certainly not be me.

In my second post, I wasn't pretending to be a CTer. I was merely pointing out, that if there was a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy to murder JFK, that if large portions of the Dallas Police were trying to kill Oswald, it would have been an incredible foul up for the car being used to pick up Oswald to bump into the hitman, Ruby. To bump Ruby aside almost before he could bump off Oswald. Of course, I don't believe that.

Clearly, the police were nervous about the transfer of Oswald. They wished their supervisor had not told the press in advance. Which he did because the press pressured him about Oswald's black eye and it would look bad if the police didn't do everything involving Oswald in secretive ways. Of course, they should move Oswald in secretive ways. That was a mistake.

But, under the circumstances, they did the best they could. The tried to move in a car to pick up Oswald as soon as they could. But the press was in the way of the car and didn't want to budge so they won't miss any photo opportunities. And the presence of so many suit wearing press allowed Ruby, who usually wore a suit and did so that day, to blend in. The car got into position just a couple of seconds too late, but still managed to bump Ruby.

Yes, it is quite surprising that this gets practically no attention. And it is exciting to learn something about the events that you didn’t know beforehand. There aren’t a lot of ramifications from this incident because Ruby apparently reacted quickly enough to keep from getting significantly injured. But, your points are certainly valid and I believe they are something that people should consider.

Another, unrelated, point that people seem to rarely consider is: Why would someone who is planning to assassinate JFK leave a note for Hosty at the Dallas FBI headquarters shortly before the assassination attempt? This would tend to bring attention to himself, and that attention is not something that I think he would want (if he was planning the assassination). Just some food for thought…

[David Von Pein]

My first post was quite serious. Ruby being bumped by a car while killing Oswald was something I had not heard of before and I do find this interesting. I am surprised that this was not more generally known. Certainly not be me.

In my second post, I wasn't pretending to be a CTer. I was merely pointing out, that if there was a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy to murder JFK, that if large portions of the Dallas Police were trying to kill Oswald, it would have been an incredible foul up for the car being used to pick up Oswald to bump into the hitman, Ruby. To bump Ruby aside almost before he could bump off Oswald. Of course, I don't believe that.

Clearly, the police were nervous about the transfer of Oswald. They wished their supervisor had not told the press in advance. Which he did because the press pressured him about Oswald's black eye and it would look bad if the police didn't do everything involving Oswald in secretive ways. Of course, they should move Oswald in secretive ways. That was a mistake.

But, under the circumstances, they did the best they could. The tried to move in a car to pick up Oswald as soon as they could. But the press was in the way of the car and didn't want to budge so they won't miss any photo opportunities. And the presence of so many suit wearing press allowed Ruby, who usually wore a suit and did so that day, to blend in. The car got into position just a couple of seconds too late, but still managed to bump Ruby.

Thanks for the explanation, Joe. I hope you don't think I was trying to be rude by asking you whether you were 100% serious about this issue.

I guess maybe this news about Ruby getting bumped by the car fender doesn't affect me as much here in 2022 because it's something I had noticed years ago---and is something I've even mentioned in some of my online posts over the years, including this 2014 discussion.

[David Von Pein]

Another, unrelated, point that people seem to rarely consider is: Why would someone who is planning to assassinate JFK leave a note for Hosty at the Dallas FBI headquarters shortly before the assassination attempt? This would tend to bring attention to himself, and that attention is not something that I think he would want (if he was planning the assassination). Just some food for thought…

I agree with you 100% on this point, Charles. I said the very same thing 13 years ago:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/james-hosty.html

(What's that they say about great minds thinking alike?) 

[Charles Collins]

I noticed this recently. The West and East slabs of the Triple Underpass Bridge differ in height.



The streets under the bridge slope downwards east-to-west about 1°. You can't assume too much about the assassination.

The HSCA and many researchers relied on a limousine drawing that was very inaccurate. Andrew Mason first told me about it, and we both began work on improving the drawing. In the end, at least in my estimation, Thomas Canning's relative position of Kennedy to Connally survived. Canning, because the limo drawing erroneously had the backseat width somewhat narrowed, unknowingly placed both men equally a few inches towards the midline of the car than they actually were.

Assumptions are risky no matter what. I think that most of us make too many assumptions about all kinds of things in life. But I agree that when it comes to the JFK assassination assumptions are especially risky.