The Remains of Bonnie Ray

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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 06:10:07 PM »
You're not sure why it matters that Bonnie Ray Williams had his lunch sitting in the Sniper's Nest while a man with a rifle was stood at the other end of the 6th floor? You're not sure why that matters?

We know it wasn't Oswald as four eye-witness reported that the assassin was wearing clothes Oswald wasn't wearing that day and didn't own.
We know it wasn't Oswald as he never had the distinctive bald spot Amos Euins was adamant about.
Not to mention the report of Oswald's observation of Norman and Jarman as they made their way to the west elevator after entering the rear door of the TSBD building.
But someone was definitely pointing a rifle out of the SN window and they fired the rifle from the Sniper's Nest, vacated by BRW minutes before.

Does it seem likely that a young black man, in Dallas [the City of Hate], in the '60's, would lie to the police when questioned about the assassination of the President? Because that's exactly what he did.
And when he did admit to being on the 6th floor he continually lied about how long he was up there.
And he was still lying during his WC testimony when he said he had his lunch in the place the Crime Lab photographed his lunch remains. We know this because his lunch remains were found on top of the SN.
Williams consistently makes every effort to distance himself from the SN.
If he saw anyone on the 6th floor before coming down to the 5th floor to join Norman and Jarman, it wasn't Oswald, it was someone still very much alive at the time of his WC testimony. Otherwise there would be no need to continue lying.

If he saw anyone on the 6th floor before coming down to the 5th floor to join Norman and Jarman, it wasn't Oswald

Yes, That's true.... But I believe that BRW did see someone on the sixth floor and that someone was a figure of authority  ( a man dressed in khaki clothes like a deputy sheriff ) who reminded him that the employees had been informed that the sixth floor was closed during lunch period and threatened to get him fired if he didn't leave immediately.....and forget that he had seen anybody on the sixth floor.

That would fit with the sighting of the man with the rifle by Rowland....And also Howard Brennan   

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 06:10:07 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2022, 12:29:18 AM »
Some facts worth injecting into this discussion:

1. Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams does not match the description of the 'elderly Negro' seen by Mr. Arnold Rowland at the SN window

2. Mr. Tom Alyea said that the lunch sack was found on the fifth floor and brought up to the sixth floor

3. There is no compelling evidence tying the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper bottle) to Mr. Williams

4. There is no compelling evidence that the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper) were even consumed on 11/22

5. Mr. Rowland recalled that, at or about the time he noticed the 'elderly Negro' in the SN window and the man with the weapon at the sixth-floor southwest window, he noticed either two or three people in the pair of windows directly below the SN window: either two-black-people-and-one-white-man, or just two black people. Messrs. Norman & Jarman were still down on the street ca. 12:15, so Mr. Rowland's recollection puts two black people other than them (and possibly a white man too) on the fifth floor some 15 minutes prior to the assassination


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« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 12:38:09 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2022, 12:29:18 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2022, 12:33:39 AM »
But I believe that BRW did see someone on the sixth floor and that someone was a figure of authority  ( a man dressed in khaki clothes like a deputy sheriff ) who reminded him that the employees had been informed that the sixth floor was closed during lunch period and threatened to get him fired if he didn't leave immediately.....and forget that he had seen anybody on the sixth floor.

Yep, something like this. No way would it have been left to blind chance that the sixth floor would be clear of employees at the time of the motorcade

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2022, 12:33:39 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2022, 08:03:26 AM »
Robert Jackson took a photo of the window moments after the assassination because he saw the rifle.

Speaking of comedy gold…

Let’s see this Bob Jackson photo. Do you ever get tired of embarrassing yourself?

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2022, 08:03:26 AM »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2022, 11:18:01 AM »
Some facts worth injecting into this discussion:

1. Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams does not match the description of the 'elderly Negro' seen by Mr. Arnold Rowland at the SN window

2. Mr. Tom Alyea said that the lunch sack was found on the fifth floor and brought up to the sixth floor

3. There is no compelling evidence tying the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper bottle) to Mr. Williams

4. There is no compelling evidence that the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper) were even consumed on 11/22

5. Mr. Rowland recalled that, at or about the time he noticed the 'elderly Negro' in the SN window and the man with the weapon at the sixth-floor southwest window, he noticed either two or three people in the pair of windows directly below the SN window: either two-black-people-and-one-white-man, or just two black people. Messrs. Norman & Jarman were still down on the street ca. 12:15, so Mr. Rowland's recollection puts two black people other than them (and possibly a white man too) on the fifth floor some 15 minutes prior to the assassination


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Rowland testifies that at around 12:15pm he sees a white male holding a rifle at the far west side of the 6th floor and a black male at the far east side of the same floor. He is specific both men are on the same floor, he circles the SN windows and marks it with an "A" and even goes so far as to describe the "configuration" of the SN windows [each set of windows consists of a pair of windows and each floor has seven sets/pairs of windows]. He describes the west window as being closed and the east window as being partially opened. No other set of windows had this configuration at the time of the assassination other than the SN windows.
So there can be little doubt the black male Rowland is describing is at the SN windows.
At this same time we know Bonnie Ray Williams is having his lunch on the 6th floor. He testifies he has his lunch by the third set of windows from the east side, but, as we have seen, there is copious amounts of evidence [from at least seven of the first officers on the scene] his lunch remains were initially found on top of the stacks of boxes that formed the SN.
So we have this situation - the lunch remains of Bonnie Ray are found by the SN window [these are the only lunch remains found on the 6th floor - to suggest otherwise displays a profound ignorance of the case], Bonnie Ray is having his lunch on the 6th floor around 12:15pm and Arnold Rowland sees the man with the rifle and the man at the SN window around this time.
There are two main scenarios possible:
There is a man with a rifle by the east window, BRW is having his lunch by the third set of windows and there is an unknown black male by the SN window at the same time.
OR
There is a man with a rifle by the east window and it is BRW sat by the SN window.
The fact that BRW's lunch remains are initially discovered by the SN window suggest the latter scenario.

But there is a problem with Rowland's description of the black male at the SN window.
Rowland has the impression the man is quite elderly, certainly more elderly than Bonnie Ray. But this should hardly dissuade us from the facts established by the testimonial and physical presented above.
What factors might have led Rowland to believe the man in the SN window appeared older?
The first is that Rowland wasn't really paying close attention to the man in the SN window, he was more interested in trying to find the man with the rifle to show his wife:

Mr. Specter: Will you describe with as much particularity as you can what that man looked like?
Mr. Rowland: It seemed to me an elderly Negro, that is about all. I didn't pay very much attention to him.


The second factor is related to Rowland's distance from the TSBD and how this may have affected his judgement of the man's age. Rowland makes this comment when trying to estmate the age of the man with the rifle:

Mr. Specter: Were you able to form any opinion as to the age of that man?
Mr. Rowland: This is again just my estimation. He was--I think I remember telling my wife that he appeared in his early thirties. This could be obscured because of the distance, I mean.


There is also the appearance of BRW that may have led to the over-estimation of his age.



Bonnie Ray has a very high forehead and a slightly receding hairline. He has very short, black hair which would've disappeared in front of a black background and when viewed from a position below he would have appeared balding. I believe this greatly contributed to Rowland's over-estimation of his age. The notion of someone balding is naturally associated with an older person. In the pic below it is easy to see how Rowland would have mistaken BRW for a balding, older man:



There is one last factor that may have influenced Rowland's opinion of the age of the man in the SN window. Rowland makes the following comment about the man:

Mr. Specter: Can you give us a more definite description as to complexion?
Mr. Rowland: Very dark or fairly dark, not real dark compared to some Negroes, but fairly dark. Seemed like his face was either--I can't recall detail but it was either very wrinkled or marked in some way.


What is this feature of the man's face that Rowland is trying to remember?
I believe Rowland is referring to the fact BRW has a mustache. Although not unheard of for a young man to have a mustache, I imagine it would be another contributing factor to Rowland's over-estimation of BRW's age.
Rowland wasn't really paying attention to the man in the SN window, who was quite a distance away.
BRW has features that would certainly make him appear older from a distance, particularly to someone just getting a quick impression of him.
In no way should Rowland's explicable over-estimation of BRW's age detract from the evidence we have that BRW was having his lunch on the 6th floor at that time and that his lunch remains were initially discovered by the SN window.

LATER EDIT: It must also be noted that Rowland described features that accurately describe BRW.
Rowland describes the man as being very slender and that he was lighter skinned that other black men, two features clearly true of BRW.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 11:26:02 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2022, 11:18:01 AM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2022, 01:44:12 PM »
I said the above is all BS.... I asked you to post a photo that shows a rifle sticking out of the window.

LOL.  So you require a time machine.  There is no photo of John Wilkes Booth point the gun at Lincoln.  I guess he is innocent along with every criminal who has commited a crime without being photographed in the act.  You should be embarrassed to post this nonsense.

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2022, 01:44:12 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2022, 01:54:16 PM »
You're not sure why it matters that Bonnie Ray Williams had his lunch sitting in the Sniper's Nest while a man with a rifle was stood at the other end of the 6th floor? You're not sure why that matters?

We know it wasn't Oswald as four eye-witness reported that the assassin was wearing clothes Oswald wasn't wearing that day and didn't own.
We know it wasn't Oswald as he never had the distinctive bald spot Amos Euins was adamant about.
Not to mention the report of Oswald's observation of Norman and Jarman as they made their way to the west elevator after entering the rear door of the TSBD building.
But someone was definitely pointing a rifle out of the SN window and they fired the rifle from the Sniper's Nest, vacated by BRW minutes before.

Does it seem likely that a young black man, in Dallas [the City of Hate], in the '60's, would lie to the police when questioned about the assassination of the President? Because that's exactly what he did.
And when he did admit to being on the 6th floor he continually lied about how long he was up there.
And he was still lying during his WC testimony when he said he had his lunch in the place the Crime Lab photographed his lunch remains. We know this because his lunch remains were found on top of the SN.
Williams consistently makes every effort to distance himself from the SN.
If he saw anyone on the 6th floor before coming down to the 5th floor to join Norman and Jarman, it wasn't Oswald, it was someone still very much alive at the time of his WC testimony. Otherwise there would be no need to continue lying.

You think BRW ate his lunch in the SN?  BRW himself confirmed this was not the case.  Why would he climb through the boxes to eat his lunch in that confined space when there was ample space elsewhere?  You are simply taking imprecise and subjective witness descriptions of a floor cluttered with boxes and grafting onto them your desired narrative.  And you really think your fantasy assassin/conspirators would allow BRW to leave the floor after seeing them just before the assassination?  Possibly raising the alarm or later implicating them.  And BRW goes down to the window directly below where all this is going on and doesn't say a word to his pals about what has just happened.  Then the fantasy conspirators trust him to remain forever silent.  That is tin foil hat territory.

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2022, 01:54:16 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2022, 01:58:43 PM »
LOL.  So you require a time machine.  There is no photo of John Wilkes Booth point the gun at Lincoln.  I guess he is innocent along with every criminal who has commited a crime without being photographed in the act.  You should be embarrassed to post this nonsense.

So you require a time machine.

No, Walt simply asked you to produce a photo to support your pathetic claim and once again you have failed.
The one who should be embarrassed is the one who is making claims that he can not back up with evidence .... and that would be you!

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2022, 01:58:43 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2022, 02:22:32 PM »
So you require a time machine.

No, Walt simply asked you to produce a photo to support your pathetic claim and once again you have failed.
The one who should be embarrassed is the one who is making claims that he can not back up with evidence .... and that would be you!

No, he didn't.  As usual, you don't understand.  Walt suggests that a photo of the event is the only way to prove that a rifle was pointed out the window.  Can you understand the difference?  He rejected the testimony of multiple witnesses who saw the rifle and the discovery of the rifle itself with fired bullet casings by that window.  Do you have a photo of John Wilkes Booth pointing a gun at Lincoln?  Does the lack of such a photo raise doubt as to his guilt and negate the other evidence that links him to the crime?  Does there have to be a film or photo of a criminal committing the act to prove it?  Even you can't be that idiotic. 

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2022, 02:22:32 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2022, 02:25:05 PM »
Some facts worth injecting into this discussion:

1. Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams does not match the description of the 'elderly Negro' seen by Mr. Arnold Rowland at the SN window

2. Mr. Tom Alyea said that the lunch sack was found on the fifth floor and brought up to the sixth floor

3. There is no compelling evidence tying the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper bottle) to Mr. Williams

4. There is no compelling evidence that the chicken lunch remains (or the Dr. Pepper) were even consumed on 11/22

5. Mr. Rowland recalled that, at or about the time he noticed the 'elderly Negro' in the SN window and the man with the weapon at the sixth-floor southwest window, he noticed either two or three people in the pair of windows directly below the SN window: either two-black-people-and-one-white-man, or just two black people. Messrs. Norman & Jarman were still down on the street ca. 12:15, so Mr. Rowland's recollection puts two black people other than them (and possibly a white man too) on the fifth floor some 15 minutes prior to the assassination


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2. Mr. Tom Alyea said that the lunch sack was found on the fifth floor and brought up to the sixth floor

This doesn't make sense.... 

A)   The search was concentrated on the 6th floor so why was Alyea on the 5th floor ?  He was with the searchteam looking for news to report....  And why in the world would the searchers carry chicken bones from the 5th to the 6th?   The vast majority of those who noticed the chicken bones, noticed them because those bones were in the place where the shells were found and thus it appeared  as though the assassin had callously  sat there eating chicken, while awaiting the parade.   As a matter f fact the reporters made a big deal out of the assassin calmly sitting there eating while waiting to murder the President.  And Curry told reporters how officer Baker had encountered Leeeee Harrrrrrrvey OSSSSSSwald ( HISSSS ) calmly drinking a coke just minutes after he had murdered the President.   It was all BS but it got peoples attention, and started the hate Oswald movement that has never abated.... 

 

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