The Remains of Bonnie Ray


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Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2022, 06:09:17 PM »
Even though some aspects of the testimony of Rowland were false and there was no other corroborating evidence about the elderly black man on the sixth floor of the TSBD Building, we made every effort to verify whether this part of Rowlandís testimony was true. Among other things, we took the deposition of every employee in the building who might remotely resemble this description and we accounted for the whereabouts of these employees at the time of the assassination (as well as the whereabouts of all other employees in the TSBD Building). We also verified that there were no persons in the immediate area who were strangers to the building.

Whereas the statement of Rowland about the elderly balding black man that he claims he saw in the southeast corner of the TSBD Building from around 12:15 to 12:24 pm is uncorroborated and is contradicted by the testimony of his wife, his other testimony about the slender white man with dark hair holding a rifle is supported by his written affidavit and is further corroborated by his wife. On the basis of the overall record, our conclusion was that he probably saw a man with a rifle appear briefly at the southwest corner of the sixth floor of the TSBD Building around 15 minutes before the assassination but that he did not see an elderly balding Negro man in the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the TSBD Building.


David Belin, pages 457-458 of ďNovember 22, 1963: You Are The JuryĒ

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2022, 06:09:17 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2022, 06:19:23 PM »
Self-serving BS from Belin.  Barbara Rowland not happening to see or hear about the "elderly black man" doesn't "contradict" Arnold seeing him.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2022, 08:13:07 PM »
Nearly twenty-five years have passed since the hour of two murders on November 22, 1963. I had more firsthand, direct contact with the key witnesses to these two murders and with the physical evidence than anyone else in the world. I had this contact in 1964, right after the events took place, when the recollections of the witnesses were most accurate. It was clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman who killed President Kennedy.


David Belin, page 226 of ďFinal Disclosure, The Full Truth About the Assassination of President KennedyĒ

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2022, 08:13:07 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2022, 07:54:02 PM »
Ok, thatís Mr.Belins conclusion which at least  DOES accept that Rowland saw a man with a rifle at the SW 6th floor window at 12:15.

If Mr.Belin also accepts that Bonnie Ray Williams was  on the 6th floor just a few windows away at 12:15 , then how to explain BRW not seeing the man with the rifle? (Or via versa) . Maybe need to examine the probable LOS again?

I canít post photos with my device here on this forum, so If someone would post a photo again showing the boxes up against the south wall so it can be seen what the probability is for having LOS blocked such that a person using the west side wall aisle would not be aware of a person at the window that BRW is supposedly at, would most helpful:)


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2022, 10:55:49 PM »
Ok, thatís Mr.Belins conclusion which at least  DOES accept that Rowland saw a man with a rifle at the SW 6th floor window at 12:15.

If Mr.Belin also accepts that Bonnie Ray Williams was  on the 6th floor just a few windows away at 12:15 , then how to explain BRW not seeing the man with the rifle? (Or via versa) . Maybe need to examine the probable LOS again?

I canít post photos with my device here on this forum, so If someone would post a photo again showing the boxes up against the south wall so it can be seen what the probability is for having LOS blocked such that a person using the west side wall aisle would not be aware of a person at the window that BRW is supposedly at, would most helpful:)



Ok, thatís Mr.Belins conclusion which at least  DOES accept that Rowland saw a man with a rifle at the SW 6th floor window at 12:15.


You left out an important word ("probably") that the WC conclusion includes (according to the quote from Belin's book).


If Mr.Belin also accepts that Bonnie Ray Williams was  on the 6th floor just a few windows away at 12:15 , then how to explain BRW not seeing the man with the rifle? (Or via versa) . Maybe need to examine the probable LOS again?


I don't believe that anyone has established the exact time that BRW left the sixth floor. See below for a photo that helps with defining a line of sight.



I canít post photos with my device here on this forum, so If someone would post a photo again showing the boxes up against the south wall so it can be seen what the probability is for having LOS blocked such that a person using the west side wall aisle would not be aware of a person at the window that BRW is supposedly at, would most helpful:)


BRW testified that he was sitting on the cart. The cart is in aisle 3 (from the east wall). The cart is not at a window, it is near the south end of aisle 3 with stacks of boxes on the east and west sides of it.

This is a scan of DP-10 from the "JFK First Day Evidence" book by Gary Savage:




I am sure there are some better quality copies available on the internet. But I had this one on my computer, and I really don't want to spend my time looking for this on the internet. Anyway, the camera position is closer to the south wall than what Rowland indicated the man with the rifle was. It appears to me that, someone sitting on the cart would have his line of sight blocked by the boxes (to someone standing further back (north) from the south wall/windows).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2022, 10:57:43 PM by Charles Collins »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2022, 03:22:20 PM »

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2022, 03:22:20 PM »


Online Bill Chapman

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2022, 05:33:50 PM »


added contrast/sharpness

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2022, 06:18:11 AM »
Thanks much All fur the photos of the 6th floor showing the perspective approx from the SW corner window looking eastward along the south wall row of windows.

There appears to be approx  3ft wide east-west  aisle along the south facing windows where the LOS is unobstructed all the way to the  SN such that 2 persons closer than 3ft to any of the south wall windows (except for SE corner window) could easily have seen each other if both persons were within 3ft of a south window.
Thereís a possibility that some person on the east  side of the stacked box wall of the SN window could be seen thru the cracks from
The west side. 

Rowland and BRW accounts  cannot be reconciled  unless there was ANOTHER black man at the SE window at 12:15 who was hanging out the windows and was wearing a red and green plaid shirt. Somehow BRW did not see or hear the other black man at the SE window, just as BRW did not see or hear a gunman who was theoretically in the LOS 3ft zone  close enough to the SW window that Rowland could see a rifle with large scope in the hands of the gunman.

 It is inconsistent to discredit Rowland seeing an elderly black man yet credit Rowlands observation of a gunman,  since both men were seen by Rowland at the same time of 12:15 on the same floor.

There is no possibility of mistaken ID by Rowland of Norman or Jarman on the 5th floor as they were not on the 5th or 6th floor at 12:15

Therefore itís a choice to totally discredit Rowland entirely or suspect that BRW was possibly coerced to place himself on the 6th floor from 12:05-12:20.

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Re: The Remains of Bonnie Ray
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2022, 06:18:11 AM »


 

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