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Author Topic: From the outside looking in...  (Read 5086 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2022, 09:57:55 PM »
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Brennan also added new details to his story over time. There’s no good reason to prefer his account over Rowland’s. Either one of them could have seen things that the other one missed.



There’s no good reason to prefer his account over Rowland’s.

LOL.  :D. You are just being ridiculous now…



How about Rowland’s wife’s testimony. Here’s just one snip from it. There are others that tend to shed doubt on Arnold’s additions.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything else about the man?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Not that I remember, except that he was wearing a light colored shirt or jacket.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about any other people in any other windows?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No; I don't think so.
Mr. BELIN. Now, did you notice any other people standing in any other windows or leaning out?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not sure if I did at that moment.
Mr. BELIN. Later on?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I saw some people either earlier or later looking out the windows.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything about any of the people you saw?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Some of them were colored men. I don't think I saw any women.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any white men?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not positive.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you saw any of these Negro men?
Mrs. ROWLAND. On a lower floor, about the fourth floor, I think, and nearer the center window. The windows nearer the center.

Mrs. BELIN. On some floor lower than the sixth floor, which you think was the fourth floor?
Mrs. ROWLAND. About the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Did you and your husband comment about these other men?
Mrs. ROWLAND. We may have said something about there being other people watching, I am not sure.

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2022, 09:57:55 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2022, 11:57:19 PM »
Belin had a really obvious agenda to discredit Rowland. Funny how they didn’t ask about Brennan’s school records or ask his family about whether he was prone to exaggerate.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2022, 12:05:13 AM »
Belin had a really obvious agenda to discredit Rowland. Funny how they didn’t ask about Brennan’s school records or ask his family about whether he was prone to exaggerate.


 :'(    ::)

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2022, 12:05:13 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2022, 07:56:46 AM »
Well done Charles, it is important that an LNer has finally broke ranks to deal with Rowland's evidence.
The usual strategy is either to ignore it or imply Rowland made the whole thing up. This leaves us with what I've referred to elsewhere as The Miracle On Elm Street - that Rowland made up a story about a white male holding a scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building and, by some unbelievably astronomical coincidence, there was indeed a white male holding a scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building!!
I find it bizarre that LNers are willing to put themselves in this position rather than take Rowland's testimony seriously.
As you have pointed out, " the descriptions given by Rowland, Brennan, Edwards, and Fischer are all similar enough to be describing the same man."

There is a incorrect detail in one of your posts that I have to rectify. It seems innocuous at first glance but it has far-reaching consequences:

BRW said that he was sitting on the cart in the third aisle from the east wall (this is also where his lunch remains were found and photographed)

It is a fact that the lunch remains were found at the Sniper's Nest and not over 30 feet away at the thrid aisle.
We have had this conversation before.
EIGHT law enforcement officers place the remains at the SN - more importantly, three of them place the remains specifically on top of thye boxes that form the Sniper's Nest!


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2022, 12:13:52 PM »
Charles poo-pooed all of their accounts because they didn’t have what he considered to be “crime scene investigation experience”.

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2022, 12:13:52 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2022, 01:03:00 PM »
Well done Charles, it is important that an LNer has finally broke ranks to deal with Rowland's evidence.
The usual strategy is either to ignore it or imply Rowland made the whole thing up. This leaves us with what I've referred to elsewhere as The Miracle On Elm Street - that Rowland made up a story about a white male holding a scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building and, by some unbelievably astronomical coincidence, there was indeed a white male holding a scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building!!
I find it bizarre that LNers are willing to put themselves in this position rather than take Rowland's testimony seriously.
As you have pointed out, " the descriptions given by Rowland, Brennan, Edwards, and Fischer are all similar enough to be describing the same man."

There is a incorrect detail in one of your posts that I have to rectify. It seems innocuous at first glance but it has far-reaching consequences:

BRW said that he was sitting on the cart in the third aisle from the east wall (this is also where his lunch remains were found and photographed)

It is a fact that the lunch remains were found at the Sniper's Nest and not over 30 feet away at the thrid aisle.
We have had this conversation before.
EIGHT law enforcement officers place the remains at the SN - more importantly, three of them place the remains specifically on top of thye boxes that form the Sniper's Nest!


Your opinions are not facts. None of your eight officers gave a specific location. You have just interpreted their words the way you want to interpret them.

The crime scene investigation officers (who were there to document the crime scene) give the specific location. And provide the photographic evidence.

Mr. BALL. Now, did you find a two-wheeled truck up there?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And did you take a picture of it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Let me see that one.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. All right - it has the Dr. Pepper bottle and the paper sack that was sitting there in the picture.
Mr. BALL. Let me see that one.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. (Handed instrument to Counsel Ball)
There are two different views of it - there's one and here's one. That was before anything was touched and before it was dusted. This is a shot - I believe that's in the third aisle and let's see what it is marked - it's the sixth floor of 411 Elm Street looking south and the third aisle from Houston Street on the south side of the building. That was taken looking directly into that - this is the sack with those chicken bones and all that mess was in there too.
Mr. BALL. Is the sack shown there?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes; it's a little ole brown sack - yes; it's right there.
Mr. BALL. We will mark this as "Exhibit H," which is your No. 6.
(Instrument marked by the reporter as "Studebaker Exhibit H," for identification.)

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/studeh.jpg

Mr. BALL. That's the sack, is that right?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And it shows - it has some chicken bones in it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Any chicken bones in any other place?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.
Mr. BALL. None outside the sack?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; they were all inside the sack, wrapped up and put right back In. It had a little piece of Fritos in the sack, too.
Mr. BALL. Then, we will have the next picture marked Exhibit I, which shows the Dr. Pepper bottle with the two - wheeler, is that right?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
(Instrument marked by the reporter as "Studebaker Exhibit I," for identification.)

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/studei.jpg

Mr. BALL. And that's your No. 7.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That's the third row over?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. That's the third aisle from Houston Street.
Mr. BALL. That would be the third set of windows?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. That would be the third set of windows - it would be - one, two, three.
Mr. BALL. The third set of windows from Houston Street - you mark it.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
(Instrument marked by the witness Studebaker as requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. Now, did you see a chicken bone over near the boxes in the south-east corner, over near where you found the cartridges and the paper sack? Mr.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I don't believe there was one there.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see any. One witness, a deputy sheriff named Luke Mooney said he found a piece of chicken partly eaten up on top of one of the boxes; did you see anything like that?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.
Mr. BALL. Was anything like that called to your attention?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I can't recall anything like that. It ought to be in one of these pictures, if it is.




Mr. BALL. Where did you eat your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I ate my lunch--I am not sure about this, but the third or the fourth set of windows, I believe.
Mr. BALL. Facing on what street?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Facing Elm Street.
Mr. McCLOY. What floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Sixth floor.
Mr. DULLES. You ate your lunch on the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you sit on while you ate your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. First of all, I remember there was some boxes behind me. I just kind of leaned back on the boxes first. Then I began to get a little impatient, because there wasn't anyone coming up. So I decided to move to a two-wheeler.
Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler. By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then.
.
.
.
Mr. BALL. I have an exhibit here marked 484.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 484 for identification.)

Mr. BALL. Do you recognize that?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I recognize that.
Mr. BALL. What do you see?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I see a two-wheeler, a Dr. Pepper bottle, and some boxes in the windows.
Mr. BALL. And is that anywhere near where you were sitting?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; that is the exact place I was sitting.
Mr. BALL. That is the two-wheeler you were sitting on?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
.
.
.
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Where did you put the bones?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I don't remember exactly, but I think I put some of them back in the sack. Just as I was ready to go I threw the sack down.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the sack?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think I just dropped it there.
Mr. BALL. Anywhere near the two-wheeler?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think it was.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Just set it down on the floor.



You can believe whatever you want to. I really don’t care. But if you are going to try to post your opinions as facts, I will point out that they are not facts.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2022, 01:06:58 PM »
Charles poo-pooed all of their accounts because they didn’t have what he considered to be “crime scene investigation experience”.


That is not the reason, just a point of interest. See the above post to Dan if you are still confused…

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2022, 01:06:58 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: From the outside looking in...
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2022, 01:43:30 PM »

Your opinions are not facts.

You can believe whatever you want to. I really don’t care. But if you are going to try to post your opinions as facts, I will point out that they are not facts.

Says the guy who is desperately trying to pass off his highly selective opinions as if they were facts.

Here is a fact that can not be denied; nowhere in Charles Collins' word salad is there even a slightest shred of evidence that Oswald was on the 6th floor between 12 and 12:30 and/or that he was the man the witnesses saw, believed they saw or imagined they saw.

This entire self-serving thread isn't going anywhere fast.