Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.

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Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2022, 07:17:40 PM »
Anyone who thinks LHO had no practice hitting moving targets doesnít know about LHO being the only hunter to kill a small animal (I forget the name of the animal, but it was a rare one) while hunting on his brotherís in-lawís farm. I canít say for certain that the animal was moving in a certain direction at any certain speed. Only that small animals in the wild donít normally stay stationary for very long.

That would be the not so rare cottontail rabbit in 1959.

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2022, 07:17:40 PM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2022, 02:02:36 AM »
Anyone who thinks LHO had no practice hitting moving targets doesnít know about LHO being the only hunter to kill a small animal (I forget the name of the animal, but it was a rare one) while hunting on his brotherís in-lawís farm. I canít say for certain that the animal was moving in a certain direction at any certain speed. Only that small animals in the wild donít normally stay stationary for very long.

I had heard that. Still, he only had very limited experience at shooting at moving targets, as opposed to stationary targets. Like most Marines.

But how much experience does one need with moving targets with a target within 100 yards and moving at only 0.58 or even 1.9 degrees per second? I don't know but I would guess maybe none.

I would expect that, so long as one can continue to track the target, a Marine trained shooter can still accurately aim at a moving target. Only when the angular velocity reaches a certain threshold would the aiming suddenly become wildly off. If you can't aim any shot would most likely miss by a lot, without a lot of luck.

This guess of mine would explain why thousands of Marines, with no more training at moving targets than Oswald, were able to survive and successfully shoot charging Japanese soldiers in World War II.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 02:03:26 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2022, 02:02:36 AM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2022, 06:39:12 PM »
I had heard that. Still, he only had very limited experience at shooting at moving targets, as opposed to stationary targets. Like most Marines.

But how much experience does one need with moving targets with a target within 100 yards and moving at only 0.58 or even 1.9 degrees per second? I don't know but I would guess maybe none.

I would expect that, so long as one can continue to track the target, a Marine trained shooter can still accurately aim at a moving target. Only when the angular velocity reaches a certain threshold would the aiming suddenly become wildly off. If you can't aim any shot would most likely miss by a lot, without a lot of luck.

This guess of mine would explain why thousands of Marines, with no more training at moving targets than Oswald, were able to survive and successfully shoot charging Japanese soldiers in World War II.


Also, I think that a possibility of shooting (moving) skeet while in Minsk exists. I have read that he was involved with a club or group that involved shotguns. But I donít remember any details (if they were given).

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2022, 06:39:12 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2022, 07:10:27 PM »
That would be the not so rare cottontail rabbit in 1959.


I haven't heard anything about a cottontail rabbit. I do remember seeing jackrabbits when I was in Texas. Here's what I was referring to:







Now, we can just wait until some clown tries to say the photo of LHO with a rifle is faked....   ;D

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2022, 07:10:27 PM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2022, 08:33:45 PM »
The Ringtail "Cat".

A great website is at:

https://www.onezoom.org

There one can learn that the Ringtail is part of a group of animals, 8 species altogether, of Ringtail, Coati and Raccoon. They all share a common ancestor of (roughly) 14 million years ago.

If ever you are kidnapped by an Alien and told you will be released if you can tell how long ago did humans share a common ancestor with some random mammal, give an answer of 85 million years ago. Off course, the answer depends on which mammal you are talking about. For Primates, Rodents and Rabbits, the answer will be somewhat less. For Elephants, Kangaroos, somewhat more. But an answer of 85 million years (roughly) will give you the correct answer for Dogs, Cats, Horses, Cows, Bats, Whales, etc. and even for Deer (running or not), Raccoons and Ringtails. Just over 40 per cent of all Mammal species alive today.

Needless to say, that obscure ancestor of 85 million years ago was wildly successful, in a Darwinian sense. It is the ancestor of 4,642 species our of the 5,046 species of all mammals alive today, over 90 % of all mammals. Pretty good for a single obscure specie of small Mammal using all it's wits to avoid Dinosaurs, and larger mammals. There were, no doubt, many species of Mammals alive at that time. But only one was destined to have over 90 % of the mammals alive today descended from it.

To what can we give credit for our "half" of the Boreoeutheria, the Euarchontoglires, having about 60 per cent of these Boreoeutheria species? To the Rodents who have 2,096 species, out of the 2,575 species of the Euarchontoglires group. Well done lads.

By the way, Mammal groups tend to be associated with some isolated continent that existed in the past. The "Boroeutheria" (Northern True Beasts) originated in the combined Europe-Asia-North America (excluding India) continent that was isolated from the other continents at the time.

The Atlantogenata (Atlantic) group of 99 species with a common ancestor of 89.1 million years ago containing Elephants and Sloths is associated with the combined South America-Africa continent.

And the Afrotheria (Africa) group of 69 species with a common ancestor of 84.2 million years ago containing Elephants and Aarkvarks is associated with Africa which became isolated from all other continents at that time.

These continental separations were not absolute. By some minor (or major) miracle, a small group of monkeys must of rafted across the young and much narrower Atlantic ocean to become the ancestors of the New World Monkeys of South and Central America. And Bats are very good at reaching continents of some distance apart. But an ocean barrier is still a pretty serious barrier. Early Primates existed in many parts of the world. They may have originated in North America. But they died out everywhere except Africa. Why? Probably because Rodents outcompeted and wiped out all Primates in the entire World, everywhere except in Africa, which (I assume) early Primates managed to reach (by a natural wooden raft?) but no Rodent managed to do so. So our existent today depended on Africa being isolated from the other continents for tens of millions of years. And a lucky Primate rafting adventure to Africa. And no Rodents making a lucky ocean crossing like the New World Monkeys did. To survive Darwinian competition for tens of millions of years, a group needs to be very good and get some luck along the way.

Note, for some who think they may detect a math error, 51 per cent of Mammals share a closer common ancestor to us than 85 million years ago. 41 per cent share a common ancestor with us of 85 million years ago. And 8 per cent share a common ancestor of more than 85 million years ago, perhaps as far back as 180 million years ago. Hence, in answering the Aliens question, 85 million years is only going to be the correct answer in 41 per cent of the cases, not 92 per cent of the time. But this answer still give you your best chance. Good luck.

These answers are primarily based on DNA comparisons, which provides something of a clock to tell all distantly related two species are. The more different, the farther back in time the common ancestor lived. Certainly not as accurate as measuring the age of rocks through comparing radioactive isotopes but it does give a rough measure.

In any case, don't forget to check out onezoom.org and make your own discoveries.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 09:59:55 PM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2022, 08:33:45 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2022, 11:48:24 PM »
The Ringtail "Cat".

A great website is at:

https://www.onezoom.org

There one can learn that the Ringtail is part of a group of animals, 8 species altogether, of Ringtail, Coati and Raccoon. They all share a common ancestor of (roughly) 14 million years ago.

If ever you are kidnapped by an Alien and told you will be released if you can tell how long ago did humans share a common ancestor with some random mammal, give an answer of 85 million years ago. Off course, the answer depends on which mammal you are talking about. For Primates, Rodents and Rabbits, the answer will be somewhat less. For Elephants, Kangaroos, somewhat more. But an answer of 85 million years (roughly) will give you the correct answer for Dogs, Cats, Horses, Cows, Bats, Whales, etc. and even for Deer (running or not), Raccoons and Ringtails. Just over 40 per cent of all Mammal species alive today.

Needless to say, that obscure ancestor of 85 million years ago was wildly successful, in a Darwinian sense. It is the ancestor of 4,642 species our of the 5,046 species of all mammals alive today, over 90 % of all mammals. Pretty good for a single obscure specie of small Mammal using all it's wits to avoid Dinosaurs, and larger mammals. There were, no doubt, many species of Mammals alive at that time. But only one was destined to have over 90 % of the mammals alive today descended from it.

To what can we give credit for our "half" of the Boreoeutheria, the Euarchontoglires, having about 60 per cent of these Boreoeutheria species? To the Rodents who have 2,096 species, out of the 2,575 species of the Euarchontoglires group. Well done lads.

By the way, Mammal groups tend to be associated with some isolated continent that existed in the past. The "Boroeutheria" (Northern True Beasts) originated in the combined Europe-Asia-North America (excluding India) continent that was isolated from the other continents at the time.

The Atlantogenata (Atlantic) group of 99 species with a common ancestor of 89.1 million years ago containing Elephants and Sloths is associated with the combined South America-Africa continent.

And the Afrotheria (Africa) group of 69 species with a common ancestor of 84.2 million years ago containing Elephants and Aarkvarks is associated with Africa which became isolated from all other continents at that time.

These continental separations were not absolute. By some minor (or major) miracle, a small group of monkeys must of rafted across the young and much narrower Atlantic ocean to become the ancestors of the New World Monkeys of South and Central America. And Bats are very good at reaching continents of some distance apart. But an ocean barrier is still a pretty serious barrier. Early Primates existed in many parts of the world. They may have originated in North America. But they died out everywhere except Africa. Why? Probably because Rodents outcompeted and wiped out all Primates in the entire World, everywhere except in Africa, which (I assume) early Primates managed to reach (by a natural wooden raft?) but no Rodent managed to do so. So our existent today depended on Africa being isolated from the other continents for tens of millions of years. And a lucky Primate rafting adventure to Africa. And no Rodents making a lucky ocean crossing like the New World Monkeys did. To survive Darwinian competition for tens of millions of years, a group needs to be very good and get some luck along the way.

Note, for some who think they may detect a math error, 51 per cent of Mammals share a closer common ancestor to us than 85 million years ago. 41 per cent share a common ancestor with us of 85 million years ago. And 8 per cent share a common ancestor of more than 85 million years ago, perhaps as far back as 180 million years ago. Hence, in answering the Aliens question, 85 million years is only going to be the correct answer in 41 per cent of the cases, not 92 per cent of the time. But this answer still give you your best chance. Good luck.

These answers are primarily based on DNA comparisons, which provides something of a clock to tell all distantly related two species are. The more different, the farther back in time the common ancestor lived. Certainly not as accurate as measuring the age of rocks through comparing radioactive isotopes but it does give a rough measure.

In any case, don't forget to check out onezoom.org and make your own discoveries.



And a lucky Primate rafting adventure to Africa.


It was only supposed to be a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tourÖ.    ;)


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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2022, 11:48:24 PM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2022, 11:59:56 PM »



And a lucky Primate rafting adventure to Africa.


It was only supposed to be a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tourÖ.    ;)

Charles

Yes. Perhaps they were seven of them. About the minimum number for a new specie to get established, without too much inbreeding, which would likely wipe out a new colony over time. And they could never figure out how to get back home. Probably just as well since there were a bunch of rats waiting for them.

But seriously, the amount of history that can be inferred from DNA comparisons between the various species is amazing. There likely was a rafting event of very primitive primates from Eurasia to Africa, perhaps around 60 to 65 million years ago. And Rodents, for whatever reason, could not make the same voyage. And then around 25 million years ago, more advanced primates, some monkeys, made a similar voyage from Africa to South America.

By the time Rodents did reach Africa, Primates had advanced enough that they could hold their own against the Rodents. Primates (Monkeys and Apes) seem to be the primary "herbivores" of the Tropical forest canopy, while Rodents (Squirrels) seem to be the primary "herbivores" of the Temperate forest canopy.

For some reason, Primates seem to do remarkably well surviving on a tree "raft" across even hundreds of miles of ocean. This is surprising because I didn't think that Primates were very good at getting by without a good deal of fresh water. Certainly people are not able to.

Question:

Did you check out onezoom.org and find it interesting?


I think it is one of the most interesting websites around.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 12:18:44 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2022, 11:59:56 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2022, 12:38:41 AM »
Charles

Yes. Perhaps they were seven of them. About the minimum number for a new specie to get established, without too much inbreeding, which would likely wipe out a new colony over time. And they could never figure out how to get back home. Probably just as well since there were a bunch of rats waiting for them.

But seriously, the amount of history that can be inferred from DNA comparisons between the various species is amazing. There likely was a rafting event of very primitive primates from Eurasia to Africa, perhaps around 60 to 65 million years ago. And Rodents, for whatever reason, could not make the same voyage. And then around 25 million years ago, more advanced primates, some monkeys, made a similar voyage from Africa to South America.

By the time Rodents did reach Africa, Primates had advanced enough that they could hold their own against the Rodents. Primates (Monkeys and Apes) seem to be the primary "herbivores" of the Tropical forest canopy, while Rodents (Squirrels) seem to be the primary "herbivores" of the Temperate forest canopy.

For some reason, Primates seem to do remarkably well surviving on a tree "raft" across even hundreds of miles of ocean. This is surprising because I didn't think that Primates were very good at getting by without a good deal of fresh water. Certainly people are not able to.

Question:

Did you check out onezoom.org and find it interesting?


I think it is one of the most interesting websites around.


Yes, thanks, thatís a great resource. Hereís a link to the information that they have for the ringtail cat:

https://www.onezoom.org/life/@Bassariscus=685106


Edit: The link works a bit different than I expected. But click on the image of the ringtail and it opens a new tab with a lot of information on the animal.   Thumb1:


« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 12:42:49 AM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2022, 12:38:41 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2022, 09:50:01 PM »


Was that in Robertís book? In his testimony, all he mentioned was that they shot 8 cottontail rabbits between them on this outing.

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2022, 09:50:01 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Running Deer Shooting at the 1908 Olympics.
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2022, 09:58:12 PM »

I haven't heard anything about a cottontail rabbit. I do remember seeing jackrabbits when I was in Texas. Here's what I was referring to:







Now, we can just wait until some clown tries to say the photo of LHO with a rifle is faked....   ;D

Why would anybody claim that the photo of LHO is faked? Paranoid much?

In fact, if nothing else, the photo shows that Oswald was photographed, more than once, holding a rifle and we know for a fact that he did not own that rifle!

What you should take away from that (but likely won't) is that the BY photos do not prove that Oswald owned a rifle. They only show that he was holding one!

 

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