The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman


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Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2022, 07:56:11 PM »
   .... And it is possible that J.C. White is blocked from the camera by the top portion of the support between Elm Street and Main Street.
 
 
The hypothetical train southbound progression would be about 30 feet further south in Wiegman than in Altgens 07.
 So such a train would not appear in Wiegman. The Paschall and Daniel films (below) are a bit late and not far enough south. 
Hypothetical train? That would consist of an engine..freight car...and caboose  :D
Read it again slowly-----

Quote
Mr. BALL. You were too far away to see it, were you?
Mr. WHITE. There was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing between the location
 I was standing and the area from which the procession was traveling, and-a big long freight train, and I did not see it.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see the procession?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.

I don't see much difference between these speculative claims and say...Badgeman lurking behind the fence or Umbrella Man...possible signal man.
I can now thoroughly understand the definition of... Strawman.
Reaching for a straw ...any straw at all...even if it is a quarter of an inch long to support a personal conjecture.
So Jerry Organ's train just buzzed on by and his attaboy pat pat has the cop hidden in plain sight.
He's there but you just can't see him [or the train]
Also.. Mr Organ appears to have the officer located at the north side of Commerce St [not in testimony]

The only thing interesting to me here is that the Secret Service had not stopped all rail traffic going over that bridge during the time of the motorcade. 
What if they were in on it?

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2022, 07:56:11 PM »


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2022, 09:37:34 PM »
The only thing interesting to me here is that the Secret Service had not stopped all rail traffic going over that bridge during the time of the motorcade.

A different time.  They also let the President ride in an open car on a preannounced route.  Live and learn. 

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2022, 11:04:56 PM »
 
 Hypothetical train? That would consist of an engine..freight car...and caboose  :D
Read it again slowly-----

Of course, the freight I placed on the map is hypothetical. You think I was tracing it from U2 photos documenting the motorcade?

Quote
I don't see much difference between these speculative claims and say...Badgeman lurking behind the fence or Umbrella Man...possible signal man.
I can now thoroughly understand the definition of... Strawman.
Reaching for a straw ...any straw at all...even if it is a quarter of an inch long to support a personal conjecture.

Thanks for your contribution. The parked railcars that were there years before and after.  ::)

Quote
So Jerry Organ's train just buzzed on by and his attaboy pat pat has the cop hidden in plain sight.
He's there but you just can't see him [or the train]

Your "proof" is the McIntire photo, taken long after a train might have been between White and DP.

Quote
Also.. Mr Organ appears to have the officer located at the north side of Commerce St [not in testimony]
What if they were in on it?

Officers didn't have GPS then. They weren't perfect like you. Officer White might have been thinking about where he stopped running to when he realized something was wrong. He might have paused there for awhile taking in the scene and later thought he was there all along.

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2022, 11:04:56 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2022, 11:47:03 PM »


The map insets show a dashed-line (representing the train) crossing southward over the bridge. The "first shot" I set at about Z160.

The middle inset (Altgens 07) was taken about two seconds before the Weigman film capture below.



The hypothetical train southbound progression would be about 30 feet further south in Wiegman than in Altgens 07. So such a train would not appear in Wiegman. The Paschall and Daniel films (below) are a bit late and not far enough south.

 

   

The film by Malcolm Couch began about 25 seconds after the head shot (or about 33 seconds after my ca.Z160 "first shot" on the top graphic). The clip showing the policeman with gun drawn and the south area of the bridge is some time later.

In this scenario, the freight might have not been between Officer White and the limousine by Z313, but the noise from it would largely be present, mixing in with and obscuring the last shot. Daniels heard three shots and Mel McIntire heard none.



One item that I noticed in the Paschall film is what appears to be D.V. Harkness on his three wheeler heading west just like he testified that he did. Itís somewhat surprising to me that he apparently did this so quickly. If I am interpreting the image correctly, the Queen Mary is just then approaching the shadow of the triple overpass. That couldnít be but seconds after the last shot. We can see Harkness in the Hughes film walking in the direction of where the limousine would be close to the time of the first shot. Thatís pretty impressive reaction time (under 22 seconds if I correctly interpreted the Bell frame that Jerry included the timing for) for a middle aged officerÖ

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2022, 11:55:55 PM »

Your "proof" is the McIntire photo, taken long after a train might have been between White and DP.
The photo shows the railroad cars that Mr Collins observed in the lead photo...you know this.
Face it. Freight trains moved very slowly on those particular tracks...esp a 'big long' one described by White.
Quote
Officer White might have been thinking about where he stopped running to when he realized something was wrong.
Where does it say that in his testimony...that  he "was running'...& 'realized something was wrong'?

A different time.  They also let the President ride in an open car on a preannounced route.  Live and learn. 
A bit late there for JFKPOTUS huh? ...to 'live and learn'.
Where anywhere did any Secret Service people ever admit that they failed in their duties that day? 

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2022, 12:05:30 AM »
The photo shows the railroad cars that Mr Collins observed in the lead photo...you know this.
Face it. Freight trains moved very slowly on those particular tracks...esp a 'big long' one described by White. Where does it say that in his testimony...that  he "was running'...& 'realized something was wrong'?
A bit late there for JFKPOTUS huh? ...to 'live and learn'.
Where anywhere did any Secret Service people ever admit that they failed in their duties that day?



Jerry based his graphic on a southbound train moving about 10-mph. Thatís pretty slow for a train on a through track.

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2022, 12:05:30 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2022, 07:29:45 PM »
Speculation aside...I have searched for other spectators, police, railroad workers ..around those tracks that would corroborate the passing of the freight train and location of White----such information is apparently non-existent.
The movement of a train overhead right at the time of the shots shoulda coulda woulda have grabbed someone else's memory.
Of course, the freight I placed on the map is hypothetical. 
Then why do it?

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2022, 07:40:13 PM »

A bit late there for JFKPOTUS huh? ...to 'live and learn'.
Where anywhere did any Secret Service people ever admit that they failed in their duties that day?

Maybe read some of Clint Hill's interviews and books.  Nevertheless, the president no longer rides in an open car on a preannounced route.  They learned many lessons that day.  The security flaws were obvious and exploited by Oswald.  It was a disaster waiting to happen and miraculous that it didn't happen before 11.22.63. 

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Re: The Testimony of J.C. White ...Patrolman
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2022, 07:40:13 PM »


 

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