A Rock Solid Alibi.....

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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #150 on: August 04, 2022, 07:07:26 PM »
What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?  Unreal.  Oswald was LESS likely to be noticed than a stranger since he worked in the building and had a legitimate reason to be there.  The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.

Except it's not:



 Thumb1:

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #150 on: August 04, 2022, 07:07:26 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2022, 07:10:22 PM »
This reasoning was used for why someone might not have been noticed on the front entrance steps:

Yet, it is apparently being ignored when it comes to the northwest inside stairs.

There was no one “monitoring the stairs”.

Ms Dorothy Garner could see them and noticed Mr Truly and Officer Baker come up them---------AFTER Ms Adams & Ms Styles went running down them. Oh dear!

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There wasn’t a security checkpoint with retina scanning (like they use these days at U.S. customs for people entering the country). LHO was sneaky. He was reportedly sneaking out of his aunt’s house while everyone was asleep when he wasn’t much older than a toddler. If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

Lol

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2022, 07:10:22 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2022, 09:09:57 PM »
Oh no, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot of difference between somebody in a crowd, with a lot going on, not seeing a particular individual and one person like Garner who was standing near the stairway of an empty warehouse floor with nothing else going on somehow missing somebody coming down noisy stairs and passing directly by her.

The one living in a fantasy world is you. If this is all you've got, then you've got nothing!


Not even one of the employees of the TSBD saw LHO around the time of the assassination. Many of them were at or near the area in question near the top of the steps of the entrance to the building at the time of the assassination. None of them saw LHO at that time, none of them.

You have one person within earshot of the the staircase who may or may not have been paying attention to the staircase the entire time in question.
 
So, how is it that you think only one person is less likely to miss noticing LHO at the northwest staircase, than all the people combined who were standing at the entrance of the building. Get real….

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2022, 09:09:57 PM »

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2022, 10:15:34 PM »
Ms Dorothy Garner could see them and noticed Mr Truly and Officer Baker come up them---------AFTER Ms Adams & Ms Styles went running down them. Oh dear!

Lol

Hearsay and without cross-examination.

    "Mr. Bellin was questioning Miss Adams about whether or not she
     saw anyone as she was running down the stairs. Miss Garner,
     Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams
     went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman
     come up."

Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs. Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether. Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

It's also possible that Garner saw the two girls enter the stairway and missed seeing Baker and Truly passing through the fourth floor a minute or so earlier.  Baker and Truly were back on the fourth, after having gone to the roof. Garner could have seen them then.

None of this was asked of Garner and we don't the context in which she was speaking. We do know what Baker and Truly did (and recreated it in time trials right at the Depository) and that Adams testified she saw Lovelady when she reached the first floor, which would be about 12:34.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2022, 10:15:34 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2022, 10:55:09 PM »
Hearsay and without cross-examination.

    "Mr. Bellin was questioning Miss Adams about whether or not she
     saw anyone as she was running down the stairs. Miss Garner,
     Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams
     went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman
     come up."

Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs. Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether. Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

It's also possible that Garner saw the two girls enter the stairway and missed seeing Baker and Truly passing through the fourth floor a minute or so earlier.  Baker and Truly were back on the fourth, after having gone to the roof. Garner could have seen them then.

None of this was asked of Garner and we don't the context in which she was speaking. We do know what Baker and Truly did (and recreated it in time trials right at the Depository) and that Adams testified she saw Lovelady when she reached the first floor, which would be about 12:34.

Hearsay and without cross-examination.

This is, by far, the most hypocritical argument for any LN to make. The entire case against Oswald is based on hearsay and no cross-examination of witnesses, yet no LN has any kind of problem with that.

Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs. Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether.

LOL... Barry Ernest interviewed Dorothy Garner for his book and she told him the girls left the window directly after the last shot. They ran to the back of the building and Garner followed them. Although she did not see them go down, she did hear them on the stairs.

Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

Styles gave several different versions over time, but when pressed she admitted she could be wrong and Adams may well be right. Also, facts don't lie and in this case Styles was photographed in front of the front entrance of the TSBD before it was locked down. She could not have been there if she and Adams did not leave the 4th floor directly after the shots. Besides, Garner saw Truly and a police man come up and that happened within less than a minute after the shots. So, where did the two girls go to if they didn't go down the stairs prior to Truly and Baker coming up?

None of this was asked of Garner and we don't the context in which she was speaking.

Actually, it was asked of her, by Barry Ernest

We do know what Baker and Truly did (and recreated it in time trials right at the Depository)

Yes, we do know what Baker and Truly did (because unlike Adams they were part of the time trails), which is how we know that the two men must have arrived at the 4th floor within a minute of the shots. And we know from Garner that the girls had already gone down by then.

and that Adams testified she saw Lovelady when she reached the first floor, which would be about 12:34.

According to Barry Ernest, Adams wasn't aware this was in her testimony and she denied saying it. Lovelady and Shelley both denied seeing Adams there (they were not even in the building at that time) and it's a physical impossibility for this to have happened given the fact that Styles was photographed at the front of the building a minute or two later. There is no way these women could have gone down the stairs, leave the building at the loading dock at the back, cross the railway yard and the length of the TSBD building in less than two minutes.

The alleged Lovelady sighting never took place. It was the WC's way of discrediting Adams who they needed to get out of the way to give Oswald a window of opportunity to go down the stairs. The whole thing is a bogus as can be and anybody with a functional brain will see it for what it is.

The bottom line is that you can not question what Dorothy Garner said simply because the WC's investigation was pathetic and they ignored her completely. If the WC had done a better job, than just place a phone call to Garner, we might have found out more of the truth about the stairs matter. But then, that's exactly what the WC wasn't interested in. Why else would they leave Adams out of the recreation?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 11:00:10 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2022, 10:55:09 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2022, 11:00:19 PM »
Hearsay and without cross-examination.

    "Mr. Bellin was questioning Miss Adams about whether or not she
     saw anyone as she was running down the stairs. Miss Garner,
     Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams
     went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman
     come up."

Exactly-------------the WC were afraid to look any more closely into this bombshell information from Ms Garner.

Quote
Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs.

Except she saw Mr Truly and the policeman come up. But nice try!  Thumb1:

Quote
Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether. Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

You are cherry-picking the bits you like from what Ms Styles has actually said in recent years

Quote
It's also possible that Garner saw the two girls enter the stairway and missed seeing Baker and Truly passing through the fourth floor a minute or so earlier.  Baker and Truly were back on the fourth, after having gone to the roof. Garner could have seen them then.

Nope---she saw Mr Truly and the policeman come up. But nice try!  Thumb1:

Quote
None of this was asked of Garner

Exactly!  Thumb1:

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2022, 11:00:19 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2022, 11:18:19 PM »
75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision.

Scientific precision. No. It could of course be a few seconds more or less. But the 2nd lunchroom meeting took place when Truly and Baker got there and that wasn't much later than 75 seconds after the last shot.

And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.

There's only nothing as long as you keep ignoring the obvious truth. But then, that's par for course with you, isn't it?

Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe. 

What makes you say something this stupid?

How about this?  Explain to us how you think your fantasy shooter on the 6th floor got out of the building unnoticed and how long it took him instead of deflecting with insults.  It's unclear why you believe Oswald - who worked in the building - could not have done this but some stranger could.  Just making vague references to "75 seconds" and "crowds" don't do that.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2022, 11:18:19 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2022, 11:26:16 PM »
How about this?  Explain to us how you think your fantasy shooter on the 6th floor got out of the building unnoticed and how long it took him instead of deflecting with insults.  It's unclear why you believe Oswald - who worked in the building - could not have done this but some stranger could.  Just making vague references to "75 seconds" and "crowds" don't do that.

Trying to explain anything to you has frequently proven to be a complete waste of time as you will either reject or ignore it anyway. So, why don't you try to figure it out by yourself.

But I will tell you this; unless you believe the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter didn't happen, Oswald must have been on the second floor within roughly 75 seconds after the last shot. He would not have had the luxury and ability of being able to hang around on the 6th floor and mingle with the many law enforcement officers that flooded the floor, pretending to be one of them and simply walking away. Oswald, or any other TSBD employee, on the 6th floor would have stood out in much the same way Oswald did to Baker on the 2nd floor.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2022, 11:26:16 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #158 on: August 04, 2022, 11:32:28 PM »
Trying to explain anything to you has frequently proven to be a complete waste of time as you will either reject or ignore it anyway. So, why don't you try to figure it out by yourself.

But I will tell you this; unless you believe the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter didn't happen, Oswald must have been on the second floor within roughly 75 seconds after the last shot. He would not have had the luxury and ability of being able to hang around on the 6th floor and mingle with the many law enforcement officers that flooded the floor, pretending to be one of them and simply walking away. Oswald, or any other TSBD employee, on the 6th floor would have stood out in much the same way Oswald did to Baker on the 2nd floor.

You want me to figure out your theory?  Wow.  You must have a lot of confidence in it if you won't even tell us what you are suggesting.  There is absolutely nothing that precludes Oswald from being the shooter and being in the lunchroom within the relevant timeframe to encounter Baker.  How long do you think it takes to walk down a few floors of stairs?  You are really suggesting that the assassin hung around on the 6th floor and waited for law enforcement to arrive to somehow blend in!  That is one of the most baseless and bizarre claims in history.  Not a single person ever claimed to have encountered this individual.  Honestly, I would be embarrassed to peddle this weak nonsense. 

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #158 on: August 04, 2022, 11:32:28 PM »

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #159 on: August 04, 2022, 11:44:05 PM »
Exactly-------------the WC were afraid to look any more closely into this bombshell information from Ms Garner.

Except she saw Mr Truly and the policeman come up. But nice try!  Thumb1:

You are cherry-picking the bits you like from what Ms Styles has actually said in recent years

Nope---she saw Mr Truly and the policeman come up. But nice try!  Thumb1:

Exactly!  Thumb1:

It's hearsay. Garner apparently overheard Belin taking about the two men "coming up" and could have innocently incorporated that into when she actually saw them, when they returned from the roof. For that matter, Shroud could have added that sweetener. Neither Garner nor Shroud might have known about the return of Baker and Truly to the fourth floor, which one or both could have assumed was the only time they were on the floor.

The Shrould Letter just isn't that definitive; it has no times or specific places or a witness who saw Garner. Rather than go with your imaginative take on pure hearsay, go with the witnesses who were sworn in and who participated in the time trials. Adams would have her broke her neck trying to duplicate her fanciful madcap dash in three-inch heels. She would have reached the parking before the policeman who turned her back.

 

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