A Rock Solid Alibi.....

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Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2022, 04:23:26 PM »
What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?  Unreal.  Oswald was LESS likely to be noticed than a stranger since he worked in the building and had a legitimate reason to be there.  The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.  Witnesses placed a shooter on the 6th floor.  That person got off the floor without being seen by anyone.  So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.  It happened - whether you want to believe it was Oswald or someone else who escaped that floor.  Therefore we know it was not only possible but actually occurred since the shooter got off that floor without being seen.  You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?

Who said anything about "between the 6th floor and exit"?

The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.

Yes, there's no need to repeat yourself

So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If there was no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down the stairs and arrive at the 2nd floor lunchroom within 75 seconds of the last shot, then you've got nothing.

Adams and Styles left their window at the 4th floor directly after the last shot. To get to the stairs in the back, they only had to cross the 4th floor diagonally where as the shooter on the 6th floor had to run from back to front and then right to left. In other words, there is no way that he could have reached the stairs faster that Adams and Styles. Even more so, as Brennan said that the shooter did not leave the window straight away. Once the girls went down the stairs, Dorothy Garner heard them on the stairs, which places here in close proximity of those stairs. She saw nobody come down from the higher floors but she did observe Truly and a police man come up. By then the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald had already happened.

There is no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down those stairs in that timeframe, which is exactly why the WC tried to discredit Adams and disregarded Garner. You may call it "Pedantic mumbo jumbo" but als long as you can't show there was actually a window of opportunity for Oswald, it's you who is blowing hot air.

You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

Except for the one thing you conveniently forget; Oswald is the only one who needed to do that within 75 seconds after the last shot. Any other shooter could have done it later. So, yes there is something the precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed within 75 seconds after the last shot

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2022, 04:23:26 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2022, 04:41:48 PM »
What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?

Who said anything about "between the 6th floor and exit"?

The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.

Yes, there's no need to repeat yourself

So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If there was no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down the stairs and arrive at the 2nd floor lunchroom within 75 seconds of the last shot, then you've got nothing.

Adams and Styles left their window at the 4th floor directly after the last shot. To get to the stairs in the back, they only had to cross the 4th floor diagonally where as the shooter on the 6th floor had to run from back to front and then right to left. In other words, there is no way that he could have reached the stairs faster that Adams and Styles. Even more so, as Brennan said that the shooter did not leave the window straight away. Once the girls went down the stairs, Dorothy Garner heard them on the stairs, which places here in close proximity of those stairs. She saw nobody come down from the higher floors but she did observe Truly and a police man come up. By then the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald had already happened.

There is no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down those stairs in that timeframe, which is exactly why the WC tried to discredit Adams and disregarded Garner. You may call it "Pedantic mumbo jumbo" but als long as you can't show there was actually a window of opportunity for Oswald, it's you who is blowing hot air.

You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

Except for the one thing you conveniently forget; Oswald is the only one who needed to do that within 75 seconds after the last shot. Any other shooter could have done it later. So, yes there is something the precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed within 75 seconds after the last shot

75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision. Ridiculous.  And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.  Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe.  But there is not a scintilla of evidence that shows anyone did so.  A stranger beating it down the stranger was much more likely to be remembered than an employee like Oswald who had a legitimate reason to be in the building.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2022, 04:41:48 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2022, 04:56:19 PM »
75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision. Ridiculous.  And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.  Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe.

Why does it have to be the same timeframe?

Quote
But there is not a scintilla of evidence that shows anyone did so.

There’s not a scintilla of evidence that Oswald did so either.

Quote
A stranger beating it down the stranger was much more likely to be remembered than an employee like Oswald who had a legitimate reason to be in the building.

Why would it have to be a stranger?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2022, 04:56:19 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2022, 05:27:11 PM »
This reasoning was used for why someone might not have been noticed on the front entrance steps:

Quote
Many people simply do not notice things or people that are close to them and many also simply do not recollect information.

Yet, it is apparently being ignored when it comes to the northwest inside stairs.

There was no one “monitoring the stairs”. There wasn’t a security checkpoint with retina scanning (like they use these days at U.S. customs for people entering the country). LHO was sneaky. He was reportedly sneaking out of his aunt’s house while everyone was asleep when he wasn’t much older than a toddler. If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 05:28:37 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2022, 05:27:11 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2022, 06:43:56 PM »
75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision. Ridiculous.  And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.  Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe.  But there is not a scintilla of evidence that shows anyone did so.  A stranger beating it down the stranger was much more likely to be remembered than an employee like Oswald who had a legitimate reason to be in the building.

75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision.

Scientific precision. No. It could of course be a few seconds more or less. But the 2nd lunchroom meeting took place when Truly and Baker got there and that wasn't much later than 75 seconds after the last shot.

And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.

There's only nothing as long as you keep ignoring the obvious truth. But then, that's par for course with you, isn't it?

Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe. 

What makes you say something this stupid?


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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2022, 06:43:56 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2022, 06:49:45 PM »
This reasoning was used for why someone might not have been noticed on the front entrance steps:

Yet, it is apparently being ignored when it comes to the northwest inside stairs.

There was no one “monitoring the stairs”. There wasn’t a security checkpoint with retina scanning (like they use these days at U.S. customs for people entering the country). LHO was sneaky. He was reportedly sneaking out of his aunt’s house while everyone was asleep when he wasn’t much older than a toddler. If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

So, why don't you tell us how exactly he could have done that?

How did he manage to cover a distance nearly double in lenght as the distance Adams and Styles had to cover and go down two flights of stairs and still be there before Adams and Styles got to the stairs on the 4th floor?

Or, alternatively, how did he manage to get by Dorothy Garner, who was near enough to the stairs to hear the girls go down and who saw nobody else except Truly and Baker coming up?

Shall I prepare for a long wait?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 06:51:18 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2022, 06:49:45 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2022, 06:55:23 PM »
If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

So, why don't you tell us how exactly he could have done that?

How did he manage to cover a distance nearly double in lenght as the distance Adams and Styles had to cover and go down two flights of stairs and still be there before Adams and Styles got to the stairs on the 4th floor?

Or, alternatively, how did he manage to get by Dorothy Garner, who was near enough to the stairs to hear the girls go down and who saw nobody else except Truly and Baker coming up?

Shall I prepare for a long wait?


You’ve already said it yourself. And I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to these stairs.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2022, 06:55:23 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2022, 07:01:20 PM »

You’ve already said it yourself. And I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to these stairs.

Oh no, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot of difference between somebody in a crowd, with a lot going on, not seeing a particular individual and one person like Garner who was standing near the stairway of an empty warehouse floor with nothing else going on somehow missing somebody coming down noisy stairs and passing directly by her.

The one living in a fantasy world is you. If this is all you've got, then you've got nothing!

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2022, 07:01:20 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2022, 07:04:02 PM »

You jump to the most ridiculous conclusions. What appears to have eluded you (even though I gave an elementary school analogy) is that this is sixth-hand information by the time Gordon Shanklin gets it. Seventh-hand information by the time it gets to J. Edgar Hoover. Hence the comparison to the elementary school lesson. You do not include the date and time of the memo. You do not include any information at all that would tend to corroborate what the sixth-hand account says. As far as I know, none of the seven individuals involved in transmitting this account ever confirmed it. And best of all it was supposedly started by an “unidentified individual”. You claim that this is “conspiracy-proving”. It isn’t, its just another bit of early-on misinformation that ended up on a memo to JEH.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 1
WITNESS TO SAWYER: I saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 2
SAWYER TO HENSLEE: The witness says he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 3
SAWYER TO BATCHELOR: The witness said he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 4
BATCHELOR TO DRAIN: The witness said he saw a man running from the window shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Mauser.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 5
DRAIN TO MALLEY: The witness said he saw a man standing at the window during the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 25, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Mauser.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 6
MALLEY TO SHANKLIN: The witness said he saw a man standing at the window during the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 25, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Carcano.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 7
SHANKLIN TO HOOVER: The witness said he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

--
Something like this, Mr Collins?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2022, 07:04:02 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2022, 07:04:41 PM »

Sorry, I must have missed this post until now. That’s it?   ???

You obviously haven’t read the thread that I started a while back regarding Geneva Hine. It was started for a completely different reason. You can read it if you are interested.

So, specifically how do you think that this idea you have regarding Geneva Hine’s account put a damper on Mrs. Reid’s account? What are you trying to say?

Well? Which desk do you suspect Ms Reid hid under?

 

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