A Rock Solid Alibi.....

[Alan Ford]

Where do you come up with this nonsense? I said nothing that even remotely resembles that. Are you going to answer the question about how you believe that Geneva Hine put a dampener on Reid’s account? Or do we just end this conversation on this note?

Just a minute, Mr Collins. Your attempt to explain away the conspiracy-proving information in the document I posted amounted to: it was just a case of Chinese whispers.

The reason this idea won't wash----------beyond its obvious silliness-----------is that the document makes clear that this ONE conversation (between Insp. Sawyer and the witness) had the following immediate result: "this description was broadcast to all Dallas squad cars".

So I can only restate the logic that you are relying on:

A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.

And I am happy to follow this up by noting what will already be obvious to everyone reading: your conclusion is no more than a hilariously desperate Warren Gullible cope, of the sort we have learned to recognize so well in these here parts.

**

However! If it would make you feel better, I would be happy to drop one of the hallucinations. This would leave us with the following:

EITHER
A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just had hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.
OR
A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just seen hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.

Which of the two options do you feel more comfortable aligning yourself with?

 

[Charles Collins]

Just a minute, Mr Collins. Your attempt to explain away the conspiracy-proving information in the document I posted amounted to: it was just a case of Chinese whispers.

The reason this idea won't wash----------beyond its obvious silliness-----------is that the document makes clear that this ONE conversation (between Insp. Sawyer and the witness) had the following immediate result: "this description was broadcast to all Dallas squad cars".

So I can only restate the logic that you are relying on:

A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.

And I am happy to follow this up by noting what will already be obvious to everyone reading: your conclusion is no more than a hilariously desperate Warren Gullible cope, of the sort we have learned to recognize so well in these here parts.

**

However! If it would make you feel better, I would be happy to drop one of the hallucinations. This would leave us with the following:

EITHER
A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just had hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.
OR
A suspect description was put out over police radio by a trained law enforcement officer on the strength of his having just hallucinated a conversation with a man who had just seen hallucinated a man with a rifle running from the building.

Which of the two options do you feel more comfortable aligning yourself with?

 

You jump to the most ridiculous conclusions. What appears to have eluded you (even though I gave an elementary school analogy) is that this is sixth-hand information by the time Gordon Shanklin gets it. Seventh-hand information by the time it gets to J. Edgar Hoover. Hence the comparison to the elementary school lesson. You do not include the date and time of the memo. You do not include any information at all that would tend to corroborate what the sixth-hand account says. As far as I know, none of the seven individuals involved in transmitting this account ever confirmed it. And best of all it was supposedly started by an “unidentified individual”. You claim that this is “conspiracy-proving”. It isn’t, its just another bit of early-on misinformation that ended up on a memo to JEH.

[Charles Collins]

~Grin~

Seeing as you started a thread on Ms Hine, you obviously saw her as a problem to be neutralized. So you don't need me to walk you through the issue.

But what the heck, I'll play..............

Ms Hine was frantic to find out what had happened. Ms Reid came in. And yet Ms Hine has no memory of finding out about the shooting from Ms Reid.

Did Ms Reid hide under a desk just before Ms Hine re-entered the office area?

Sorry, I must have missed this post until now. That’s it?   

You obviously haven’t read the thread that I started a while back regarding Geneva Hine. It was started for a completely different reason. You can read it if you are interested.

So, specifically how do you think that this idea you have regarding Geneva Hine’s account put a damper on Mrs. Reid’s account? What are you trying to say? 

[Richard Smith]

It's without question true that the absense of evidence isn't evidence of absense, but the fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't automatically mean that it is practically possible also. Nobody has ever seen a pig fly, but that doesn't mean that they can fly!

The problem for the theory is that Oswald had to be in the 2nd floor lunchroom some 75 seconds after the last shot and the only way to get there would be the stairs. The same stairs where Dorothy Garner stood in close proximity of.

Any other shooter could have just mingled with the crowd and simply walked out later.

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?  Unreal.  Oswald was LESS likely to be noticed than a stranger since he worked in the building and had a legitimate reason to be there.  The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.  Witnesses placed a shooter on the 6th floor.  That person got off the floor without being seen by anyone.  So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.  It happened - whether you want to believe it was Oswald or someone else who escaped that floor.  Therefore we know it was not only possible but actually occurred since the shooter got off that floor without being seen.  You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

[Martin Weidmann]

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?  Unreal.  Oswald was LESS likely to be noticed than a stranger since he worked in the building and had a legitimate reason to be there.  The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.  Witnesses placed a shooter on the 6th floor.  That person got off the floor without being seen by anyone.  So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.  It happened - whether you want to believe it was Oswald or someone else who escaped that floor.  Therefore we know it was not only possible but actually occurred since the shooter got off that floor without being seen.  You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?

Who said anything about "between the 6th floor and exit"?

The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.

Yes, there's no need to repeat yourself

So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If there was no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down the stairs and arrive at the 2nd floor lunchroom within 75 seconds of the last shot, then you've got nothing.

Adams and Styles left their window at the 4th floor directly after the last shot. To get to the stairs in the back, they only had to cross the 4th floor diagonally where as the shooter on the 6th floor had to run from back to front and then right to left. In other words, there is no way that he could have reached the stairs faster that Adams and Styles. Even more so, as Brennan said that the shooter did not leave the window straight away. Once the girls went down the stairs, Dorothy Garner heard them on the stairs, which places here in close proximity of those stairs. She saw nobody come down from the higher floors but she did observe Truly and a police man come up. By then the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald had already happened.

There is no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down those stairs in that timeframe, which is exactly why the WC tried to discredit Adams and disregarded Garner. You may call it "Pedantic mumbo jumbo" but als long as you can't show there was actually a window of opportunity for Oswald, it's you who is blowing hot air.

You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

Except for the one thing you conveniently forget; Oswald is the only one who needed to do that within 75 seconds after the last shot. Any other shooter could have done it later. So, yes there is something the precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed within 75 seconds after the last shot

[Richard Smith]

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?

Who said anything about "between the 6th floor and exit"?

The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.  Whether that was Oswald or someone else.

Yes, there's no need to repeat yourself

So all the CTer pedantic mumbo jumbo about Oswald not being able to get down the stairs without being seen is not relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If there was no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down the stairs and arrive at the 2nd floor lunchroom within 75 seconds of the last shot, then you've got nothing.

Adams and Styles left their window at the 4th floor directly after the last shot. To get to the stairs in the back, they only had to cross the 4th floor diagonally where as the shooter on the 6th floor had to run from back to front and then right to left. In other words, there is no way that he could have reached the stairs faster that Adams and Styles. Even more so, as Brennan said that the shooter did not leave the window straight away. Once the girls went down the stairs, Dorothy Garner heard them on the stairs, which places here in close proximity of those stairs. She saw nobody come down from the higher floors but she did observe Truly and a police man come up. By then the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald had already happened.

There is no window of opportunity for Oswald to get down those stairs in that timeframe, which is exactly why the WC tried to discredit Adams and disregarded Garner. You may call it "Pedantic mumbo jumbo" but als long as you can't show there was actually a window of opportunity for Oswald, it's you who is blowing hot air.

You are implying that the fantasy conspirator shooter could do something that Oswald for some inexplicable reason could not.  That is absurd.  Nothing precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed.

Except for the one thing you conveniently forget; Oswald is the only one who needed to do that within 75 seconds after the last shot. Any other shooter could have done it later. So, yes there is something the precludes Oswald from being the shooter and getting to the lunchroom unnoticed within 75 seconds after the last shot

75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision. Ridiculous.  And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.  Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe.  But there is not a scintilla of evidence that shows anyone did so.  A stranger beating it down the stranger was much more likely to be remembered than an employee like Oswald who had a legitimate reason to be in the building.

[John Iacoletti]

75 seconds - lol.  As though the timing of these events can be known with scientific precision. Ridiculous.  And there is still nothing to have precluded Oswald from reaching the lunchroom in that timeframe.  Your fantasy shooter presumably has to get out of the entire building - not just down to the 2nd floor in the same timeframe.

Why does it have to be the same timeframe?

But there is not a scintilla of evidence that shows anyone did so.

There’s not a scintilla of evidence that Oswald did so either.

A stranger beating it down the stranger was much more likely to be remembered than an employee like Oswald who had a legitimate reason to be in the building.

Why would it have to be a stranger?

[Charles Collins]

This reasoning was used for why someone might not have been noticed on the front entrance steps:

Many people simply do not notice things or people that are close to them and many also simply do not recollect information.

Yet, it is apparently being ignored when it comes to the northwest inside stairs.

There was no one “monitoring the stairs”. There wasn’t a security checkpoint with retina scanning (like they use these days at U.S. customs for people entering the country). LHO was sneaky. He was reportedly sneaking out of his aunt’s house while everyone was asleep when he wasn’t much older than a toddler. If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.