A Rock Solid Alibi.....


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Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2022, 01:20:18 PM »
If you were an employee outside watching the parade, you would be focusing on watching the parade and not turning around to see who was behind you. Any employee could have been outside watching the parade and not have been seen for that exact reason. Plus with all the confusion and hysteria people weren't looking for specific employees to give an alibi to.       

Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass.   There was no "confusion and hysteria" going on while they were waiting.  They would have had nothing else to do but notice the folks standing around them.  Many of them were TSBD coworkers who would have known each other and socialized.  None of them claimed to see Oswald outside the building although they remembered many others.  Frazier was standing on the front steps and noted the folks who were standing around him.  Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2022, 01:20:18 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2022, 01:24:55 PM »
LOL.  Stick to being a contrarian.  Alan claims Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD.  There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.  His coworkers like Frazier were there.  None of them claimed to see Oswald there.  Can you understand the difference between that situation and the 6th floor?

No. You claim that Oswald was on the 6th floor, don't you? So, there is no difference.

There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.

Utter stupidity on full display! Photos and films can only show that somebody was there. They can not show that somebody wasn't there.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2022, 01:29:24 PM »
Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass.   There was no "confusion and hysteria" going on while they were waiting.  They would have had nothing else to do but notice the folks standing around them.  Many of them were TSBD coworkers who would have known each other and socialized.  None of them claimed to see Oswald outside the building although they remembered many others.  Frazier was standing on the front steps and noted the folks who were standing around him.  Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass. 

Another meaningless strawman

Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

There is at least one person in them that, so far, hasn't been positively identified. How can you rule out with 100% certainty that person isn't Oswald? The honest answer would be that you can't rule that out 100%. So, now let's hear your answer....

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2022, 01:29:24 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2022, 01:30:45 PM »
No. You claim that Oswald was on the 6th floor, don't you? So, there is no difference.

There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.

Utter stupidity on full display! Photos and films can only show that somebody was there. They can not show that somebody wasn't there.

HA HA HA.  This one is priceless.  A photo or film cannot show somebody wasn't there?   Classic contrarian logic.  So the claim is that Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD at the moment of the assassination giving him an alibi.  There are photos and films of the people standing there at the relevant moment.  Oswald isn't there.  That leaves us with two possible conclusions.  First, that Oswald has powers of invisibility or second, he wasn't there.   And there is no difference between this situation and the 6th floor?  Do you have photos and films of the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination that show Oswald wasn't there?  And there were coworkers on that floor at the moment the shots were fired who didn't see him?  Wow.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2022, 01:36:48 PM »
Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass. 

Another meaningless strawman

Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

There is at least one person in them that, so far, hasn't been positively identified. How can you rule out with 100% certainty that person isn't Oswald? The honest answer would be that you can't rule that out 100%. So, now let's hear your answer....

Frazier is standing right there.  He is the guy who knew Oswald better than anyone else in the building.  He drove him to work that very morning.  Others there also knew Oswald.  None of them ever claimed Oswald had been standing there.  Frazier has scientific powers of observation in your estimation when it comes to the length of Oswald's bag that morning, But suddenly he doesn't observe Oswald standing right next to him on the steps.  A critical piece of evidence since Oswald would be accused of assassinating the President at that moment.  Unreal.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2022, 02:30:41 PM »
It is entirely plausible  that Oswajd could have been eating his lunch in the Domino room and saw Norman&Jarman approx 12:24-25 entering rear loading dock door AND ALSO that  Oswald left he Domino room and took his coke in hand to the front lobby approx 12:25-26 where Carolyn Arnold caught  a glimpse of him thru  the window.

Carolyn Arnold could have seen Oswajd TWICE!
Once at 12:15 in the 2nd floor lunchroom because Oswald had gone up at that point to get his coke. Then the 2nd sighting was at 12:25-26 when Carolyn was outside standing on the sidewalk and looked back to the TSBD entrance momentarily. (Note: she was fairly certain that it was NOT Lovelady she saw because of the “thru the glass “ description, thus not Lovelady because he was OUTSIDE on the west side of the steps near the west wall .


Then Oswald went out the front door and being the slender 135 lb man was able to easily go behind several persons on the entrance landing including Buell W. frazier, to the PM location in the west corner at approx 12:28-29.

There , Oswald was captured in Weigman film raising a bottle (white label?) on it to his mouth and down back to waste level again.

What about the lunch question? Where did Oswald get his lunch?

possible options:

1. Oswald brought the lunch in a smaller bag Inside the the longer 22-27” bag that Frazier saw.

2. Oswald already  had some lunch left in the 2nd floor lunchroom refrigerator from the day before.

3. Oswald may have gone out of the TSBD after speaking to Eddie Piper at 12:00 , thus Oswald was unseen by anyone from 12:01 until 12:14 when Oswald returns and went up to 2nd floor lunchroom to buy a coke.
 When Carolyn entered the lunchroom, 12:15 , Oswald decided he best get back to the Domino room since the 2nd floor lunchroom was generally reserved  for the office workers only ( per Lovelady WC testimony ).

An objective analysis of the many actions and movements required of Oswald to make the WC theory work actually demonstrate the theory is severely flawed and approaching a level of improbability that makes it Implausible.

Examples:

1. If Oswald was in the Domino room observing Norman/Jarman passing by at 12:25 then Oswald could not have been the one placing a box on the 6th floor SN window since that box had to been placed just before Bronson film begins at 12:25, showing box is in the window

2. If Oswald was seen at 12:15 by Carolyn Arnold in the 2nd floor lunchroom, then Oswald was not the man seen by Arnold Rowland at 12:15 at the SW window holding a rifle in hand

3. If Oswald was seen  approx. 12:25 by Carolyn Arnold in the Front entrance Lobby ground floor of TSBD , then Oswald was not in proximity of the 6th floor in time to place the window ledge box before Bonnie Ray Williams left the 6th floor.

4. If Bonnie Ray Williams  did not leave from the 6th floor until 12:24 , thus only joining Norman and Jarman AFTER  they. reach the 5th floor south facing windows approx 12:26 then Oswald could not have placed a box on the 6th floor window ledge earlier that 12:25.

4. Given that it would have taken Bob Jackson a few seconds to locate and spot a rifle sticking out the SE 6th floor window after the last shot, a few more seconds to exclaim “there’s a rifle in that window” , a few seconds more for  Malcom Couch (in the same car w/Jackson) to respond , and finally, about 3 more seconds for both men to observe the rifle “slowly withdrawn” ….

Therefore: It is already approx.  10 secs post shots BEFORE the SE gunman even gets up out of his cramped position and had to squeeze out of a more enclosed wall that existed before some boxes were removed later by the Fritz SN rearrangement crew. ( 4 secs more)

Thus the time is approx 14 sec post shots before an Oswald (presumed to be gunman) could even start his trek across 180 ft of 6th floor to get to the staircase.

It would take 27 secs more at 8ft per second double time running to get to the boxes were the rifle was presumed to be hidden. ( +2 sec to accelerate and +2 sec to decelerate added to 180ft/8ft sec point to point instantaneous 23sec calculation.

Question: How probable that a person could wipe off all prints from the rifle while in the process of running with it at 8ft/sec having to navigate past columns and taking a turn past rows of boxes?  In the 27 sec time?

Even if it can demonstrated by experiment that it  is possible, the time of Oswald arriving at the boxes near staircase is  approx 50 secs post shots. This is even before getting the rifle hidden in between the boxes. That would take at least 5 more secs even if the rifle could have just been “dropped”, because of the  sling with 2”wide pad has to go in first, and then a box pushed over top of the gap afterwards.

There is still about another 10 ft to travel from
Boxes  to the actual staircase so the total time elapsed before Oswald could have started down the 6th floor staircase is approx 55 sec post shots.

The fastest probable rate of descent per floor using the L-shaped 18 step staircase and across 20 ft arc distance of landing =10 secs/floor

This therefore makes it virtually impossible for Oswald ,  if starting at 50-55 sec post shots from top of the 6th floor staircase,  to have descended  4 floors to the 2nd floor landing before 80 secs post shots which is the approx time Truly and Baker would have arrived per the WC time trial)


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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2022, 02:30:41 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2022, 03:23:45 PM »
If you were an employee outside watching the parade, you would be focusing on watching the parade and not turning around to see who was behind you. Any employee could have been outside watching the parade and not have been seen for that exact reason. Plus with all the confusion and hysteria people weren't looking for specific employees to give an alibi to.       

Exactly, Mr Plant-----well said, sir!  Thumb1:

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2022, 03:32:12 PM »
Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass.

Well, that's exactly what Mr Roy Edward Lewis says he did.

Quote
There was no "confusion and hysteria" going on while they were waiting.  They would have had nothing else to do but notice the folks standing around them.  Many of them were TSBD coworkers who would have known each other and socialized.  None of them claimed to see Oswald outside the building although they remembered many others.  Frazier was standing on the front steps and noted the folks who were standing around him.  Oswald wasn't there.

Mr Oswald, not wanting to go out front until the last moment, because he wasn't into small talk with coworkers, mooched around inside the first floor, keeping an eye on what was happening outside by looking through the glass front door. Then, when he saw (and heard) that the motorcade was arriving, he slipped outside.

Your argument, in short, is irrelevant to such a scenario.

Quote
If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

Nor is Mr Roy Lewis. Nor is Ms Pauline Sanders. So what?

And you still can't explain the impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in Wiegman. If Mr Oswald did go out front and was caught on film, then the addition of that ridiculous shadow makes perfect sense.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2022, 03:32:12 PM »


 

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