A Rock Solid Alibi.....

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Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2022, 01:31:16 AM »
You are claiming Oswald was on the front steps of the TSBD even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?  And many of his co-workers - like Frazier - were there but didn't see him.  It's laughable.  No one saw Oswald outside the building or in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination.

What's your point? Nobody saw Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination. So he wasn't there, right?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2022, 01:31:16 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2022, 03:01:42 AM »
Hosty wrote:

He went to 2nd
floor to get Coca Cola to eat with
lunch and returned to 1st floor to
eat lunch. Then went outside to watch
P. Parade


My interpretation of this is:

"The most obvious interpretation of this being [IMO] that after Oswald had been up to the second floor for a Coke, he went down to the first floor, finished his lunch then went outside to watch the parade."

Please explain what is bizarre about this interpretation and provide your own "sensible" interpretation.

What's bizarre is your translation of "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" into "Then went outside with the intention of watching the P. Parade but ended up not succeeding in doing so for reasons I won't bother mentioning here in this interrogation report"

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When I wrote - "IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW THE PARADE" - that is not part of an interpretation, it's a fact. This is confirmed by Kelley reporting that Oswald said he did not see the parade.

It is, indeed, a fact that Insp. Kelley reports that Mr Oswald said this; that does not, however, of itself make it an established fact that Mr Oswald actually said it. Anymore than it is an established fact that Mr Oswald claimed to have eaten lunch WITH Messrs Jarman & Norman in the domino room. We must treat incriminating hearsay from the 'investigators' very carefully indeed.

You still haven't explained BTW why not ONE of those present at interrogations is willing to state for the official record where exactly Mr Oswald claimed to have been at the time of the assassination. Any thoughts? You think they didn't regard this question as bearing any great relevance to the case? Hm?

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Unlike you, I don't believe Oswald is some kind of falsely accused, innocent bystander.
He is deeply involved in the events of that day and his reported comments/behaviour should be seen in that light.

I can't believe you've actually gone there.  Thumb1:

Nowhere have I cited them as reliable witnesses.

So you accept that Messrs Lovelady and Shelley may be lying when they say they didn't see Mr Oswald out front? Yes?

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Lewis, Frazier, Shelley and Molina.
Saunders and  Stanton were also on the top landing.

The top landing was not one foot deep, for heaven's sake! And the front door opened inwards as well as outwards


If Mr Oswald left it until the last minute to go out through the front door, then he could easily have slipped out unnoticed by those already there. Everyone's attention was fixated on the approaching motorcade.

And in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, there was shock & confusion. How many people noticed a police officer wearing a white helmet dashing up the front steps and running inside the front door? How many people noticed Mr Truly doing the same? We literally only have Ms Sanders reportedly saying she saw the former; and only Mr Molina saying he saw the latter. (Unless you want to redeploy your new star witnesses Messrs Shelley & Lovelady to top up that glorious tally?)

Are you seriously claiming to know to a moral certainty that any of the individuals you name above (other than Mr Frazier, whom I have no doubt saw Mr Oswald out there) was standing right back against the glass door as the motorcade was turning onto Houston? That Mr Oswald would have had to push his way past them? Or are you just making details up?

 Thumb1:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 03:11:47 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2022, 03:01:42 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2022, 03:04:11 AM »
You are claiming Oswald was on the front steps of the TSBD even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?

You are claiming Oswald was in the SN window even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2022, 03:04:11 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2022, 06:09:09 AM »
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He saw Messrs Norman & Jarman before he went outside to watch the P. Parade
Any link to James Jarmon's testimony? Nothing here anymore----
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2022, 06:09:09 AM »

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2022, 11:06:08 AM »
Of course, Mr Oswald had already given his alibi------------he went outside to watch the P. Parade.[/b] He assumed that other employees would vouch for his presence there.[/b]

He had no idea that he was in the frame for pulling any trigger in Dealey Plaza. Such an idea would have been too absurd for words. He was given to understand only that he was being accused of killing Officer Tippit and (at most) having some involvement in the events in Dealey Plaza.

It therefore follows as a distinct possiblity that his mention of Messrs Jarman & Norman was not meant as an alibi (which he didn't even think he needed) but as potentially helpful information: I saw those two guys come in shortly before the motorcade. Maybe you need to talk to them, not me.

This would be similar to his mention of having seen a/the rifle being handled by Mr Truly on the first floor a couple of days ago. Again the implication is: Maybe you need to talk to him, not me.

 Thumb1:

If you were an employee outside watching the parade, you would be focusing on watching the parade and not turning around to see who was behind you. Any employee could have been outside watching the parade and not have been seen for that exact reason. Plus with all the confusion and hysteria people weren't looking for specific employees to give an alibi to.       

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2022, 11:06:08 AM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »
What's your point? Nobody saw Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination. So he wasn't there, right?

LOL.  Stick to being a contrarian.  Alan claims Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD.  There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.  His coworkers like Frazier were there.  None of them claimed to see Oswald there.  Can you understand the difference between that situation and the 6th floor?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2022, 01:20:18 PM »
If you were an employee outside watching the parade, you would be focusing on watching the parade and not turning around to see who was behind you. Any employee could have been outside watching the parade and not have been seen for that exact reason. Plus with all the confusion and hysteria people weren't looking for specific employees to give an alibi to.       

Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass.   There was no "confusion and hysteria" going on while they were waiting.  They would have had nothing else to do but notice the folks standing around them.  Many of them were TSBD coworkers who would have known each other and socialized.  None of them claimed to see Oswald outside the building although they remembered many others.  Frazier was standing on the front steps and noted the folks who were standing around him.  Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2022, 01:20:18 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2022, 01:24:55 PM »
LOL.  Stick to being a contrarian.  Alan claims Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD.  There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.  His coworkers like Frazier were there.  None of them claimed to see Oswald there.  Can you understand the difference between that situation and the 6th floor?

No. You claim that Oswald was on the 6th floor, don't you? So, there is no difference.

There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.

Utter stupidity on full display! Photos and films can only show that somebody was there. They can not show that somebody wasn't there.

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2022, 01:24:55 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2022, 01:29:24 PM »
Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass.   There was no "confusion and hysteria" going on while they were waiting.  They would have had nothing else to do but notice the folks standing around them.  Many of them were TSBD coworkers who would have known each other and socialized.  None of them claimed to see Oswald outside the building although they remembered many others.  Frazier was standing on the front steps and noted the folks who were standing around him.  Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

Many of these people had been standing together well before the motorcade arrived.  They wouldn't have jumped out the door at the last instant since no one knew exactly when the motorcade would pass. 

Another meaningless strawman

Oswald wasn't there.  If there was any doubt, there are films and photos of the people standing on the front steps.  Oswald is not in them.

There is at least one person in them that, so far, hasn't been positively identified. How can you rule out with 100% certainty that person isn't Oswald? The honest answer would be that you can't rule that out 100%. So, now let's hear your answer....

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2022, 01:29:24 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2022, 01:30:45 PM »
No. You claim that Oswald was on the 6th floor, don't you? So, there is no difference.

There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.

Utter stupidity on full display! Photos and films can only show that somebody was there. They can not show that somebody wasn't there.

HA HA HA.  This one is priceless.  A photo or film cannot show somebody wasn't there?   Classic contrarian logic.  So the claim is that Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD at the moment of the assassination giving him an alibi.  There are photos and films of the people standing there at the relevant moment.  Oswald isn't there.  That leaves us with two possible conclusions.  First, that Oswald has powers of invisibility or second, he wasn't there.   And there is no difference between this situation and the 6th floor?  Do you have photos and films of the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination that show Oswald wasn't there?  And there were coworkers on that floor at the moment the shots were fired who didn't see him?  Wow.

 

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