A Rock Solid Alibi.....


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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2022, 01:16:34 AM »
Agent Hosty is recording the suspect's key claims: his whereabouts at & around the time of the shooting. The absence of any further clarifying note------along the lines of "Then went outside to watch P. Parade, but heard three loud bangs just before doing so" or "Then went outside to watch P. Parade but it had already passed"-------renders your interpretation quite bizarre.

Hosty wrote:

He went to 2nd
floor to get Coca Cola to eat with
lunch and returned to 1st floor to
eat lunch. Then went outside to watch
P. Parade


My interpretation of this is:

"The most obvious interpretation of this being [IMO] that after Oswald had been up to the second floor for a Coke, he went down to the first floor, finished his lunch then went outside to watch the parade."

Please explain what is bizarre about this interpretation and provide your own "sensible" interpretation.

When I wrote - "IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW THE PARADE" - that is not part of an interpretation, it's a fact. This is confirmed by Kelley reporting that Oswald said he did not see the parade.

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No less bizarre is your belief that Mr Oswald claimed he had a gun stuck in his gut by a cop and was told by a female employee the Pres. had just been shot, and then went downstairs to finish his lunch, before going outside in the belief that what he would be seeing there was... a P. Parade!  :D

Unlike you, I don't believe Oswald is some kind of falsely accused, innocent bystander.
He is deeply involved in the events of that day and his reported comments/behaviour should be seen in that light.

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The recessed front entrance steps are in the building. Only when you step out on to the sidewalk can you be said to have left the building

I can't believe you've actually gone there.  Thumb1:

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Not if I believe that Messrs Lovelady & Shelley noticed Mr Oswald there. After all, we are agreed that they were egregious liars. So it's wildly inconsistent for you to now cite them as reliable witnesses

Nowhere have I cited them as reliable witnesses.

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Tell us who he would have had to pass to get out of the front door? And then tell us which way everyone on those steps was looking as the motorcade turned onto Dealey Plaza  Thumb1:

Lewis, Frazier, Shelley and Molina.
Saunders and  Stanton were also on the top landing.

Everyone would most likely have been watching the motorcade as it passed by. Nowhere have I suggested otherwise.

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Not one employee reports seeing Mr Roy Edward Lewis on the steps. Not a single one. So what?

Now you're being silly.
How many employees were asked if they saw Lewis around the time of the assassination?  [None]
How many employees were asked if they saw Oswald around the time of the assassination?  [All of them]
What a stupid point to make.

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You evidently still cannot explain why there is a naturalistically impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in the Wiegman film. And yet you carry on insisting that there's nothing to see in the entranceway. Pure reality-denial!

Neither can you.  Thumb1:

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2022, 01:16:34 AM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2022, 01:16:40 AM »
Ah, I see what you did there, Mr Smith. Mr Oswald didn't "step outside the TSBD", he went out the front door of the building without leaving the premises---------i.e. front steps.

Next you'll be telling us, as you and your Warren Gullible pals always do, that Mr Oswald told a pressman he was "inside the building at the time"  :D

OK, show us Mr Roy Edward Lewis outside @ assassination-time. If you can't, I will conclude that you believe Mr Lewis was not there.

And show us Mr Bill Shelley. If you can't, I will conclude that you believe Mr Shelley was not there.

 Thumb1:

You are claiming Oswald was on the front steps of the TSBD even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?  And many of his co-workers - like Frazier - were there but didn't see him.  It's laughable.  No one saw Oswald outside the building or in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination. 

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2022, 01:31:16 AM »
You are claiming Oswald was on the front steps of the TSBD even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?  And many of his co-workers - like Frazier - were there but didn't see him.  It's laughable.  No one saw Oswald outside the building or in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination.

What's your point? Nobody saw Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination. So he wasn't there, right?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2022, 01:31:16 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2022, 03:01:42 AM »
Hosty wrote:

He went to 2nd
floor to get Coca Cola to eat with
lunch and returned to 1st floor to
eat lunch. Then went outside to watch
P. Parade


My interpretation of this is:

"The most obvious interpretation of this being [IMO] that after Oswald had been up to the second floor for a Coke, he went down to the first floor, finished his lunch then went outside to watch the parade."

Please explain what is bizarre about this interpretation and provide your own "sensible" interpretation.

What's bizarre is your translation of "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" into "Then went outside with the intention of watching the P. Parade but ended up not succeeding in doing so for reasons I won't bother mentioning here in this interrogation report"

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When I wrote - "IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW THE PARADE" - that is not part of an interpretation, it's a fact. This is confirmed by Kelley reporting that Oswald said he did not see the parade.

It is, indeed, a fact that Insp. Kelley reports that Mr Oswald said this; that does not, however, of itself make it an established fact that Mr Oswald actually said it. Anymore than it is an established fact that Mr Oswald claimed to have eaten lunch WITH Messrs Jarman & Norman in the domino room. We must treat incriminating hearsay from the 'investigators' very carefully indeed.

You still haven't explained BTW why not ONE of those present at interrogations is willing to state for the official record where exactly Mr Oswald claimed to have been at the time of the assassination. Any thoughts? You think they didn't regard this question as bearing any great relevance to the case? Hm?

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Unlike you, I don't believe Oswald is some kind of falsely accused, innocent bystander.
He is deeply involved in the events of that day and his reported comments/behaviour should be seen in that light.

I can't believe you've actually gone there.  Thumb1:

Nowhere have I cited them as reliable witnesses.

So you accept that Messrs Lovelady and Shelley may be lying when they say they didn't see Mr Oswald out front? Yes?

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Lewis, Frazier, Shelley and Molina.
Saunders and  Stanton were also on the top landing.

The top landing was not one foot deep, for heaven's sake! And the front door opened inwards as well as outwards


If Mr Oswald left it until the last minute to go out through the front door, then he could easily have slipped out unnoticed by those already there. Everyone's attention was fixated on the approaching motorcade.

And in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, there was shock & confusion. How many people noticed a police officer wearing a white helmet dashing up the front steps and running inside the front door? How many people noticed Mr Truly doing the same? We literally only have Ms Sanders reportedly saying she saw the former; and only Mr Molina saying he saw the latter. (Unless you want to redeploy your new star witnesses Messrs Shelley & Lovelady to top up that glorious tally?)

Are you seriously claiming to know to a moral certainty that any of the individuals you name above (other than Mr Frazier, whom I have no doubt saw Mr Oswald out there) was standing right back against the glass door as the motorcade was turning onto Houston? That Mr Oswald would have had to push his way past them? Or are you just making details up?

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« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 03:11:47 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2022, 03:04:11 AM »
You are claiming Oswald was on the front steps of the TSBD even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?

You are claiming Oswald was in the SN window even though the films and photos of the event don't show him there at the relevant time?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2022, 06:09:09 AM »
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He saw Messrs Norman & Jarman before he went outside to watch the P. Parade
Any link to James Jarmon's testimony? Nothing here anymore----
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2022, 06:09:09 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2022, 11:06:08 AM »
Of course, Mr Oswald had already given his alibi------------he went outside to watch the P. Parade.[/b] He assumed that other employees would vouch for his presence there.[/b]

He had no idea that he was in the frame for pulling any trigger in Dealey Plaza. Such an idea would have been too absurd for words. He was given to understand only that he was being accused of killing Officer Tippit and (at most) having some involvement in the events in Dealey Plaza.

It therefore follows as a distinct possiblity that his mention of Messrs Jarman & Norman was not meant as an alibi (which he didn't even think he needed) but as potentially helpful information: I saw those two guys come in shortly before the motorcade. Maybe you need to talk to them, not me.

This would be similar to his mention of having seen a/the rifle being handled by Mr Truly on the first floor a couple of days ago. Again the implication is: Maybe you need to talk to him, not me.

 Thumb1:

If you were an employee outside watching the parade, you would be focusing on watching the parade and not turning around to see who was behind you. Any employee could have been outside watching the parade and not have been seen for that exact reason. Plus with all the confusion and hysteria people weren't looking for specific employees to give an alibi to.       

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »
What's your point? Nobody saw Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination. So he wasn't there, right?

LOL.  Stick to being a contrarian.  Alan claims Oswald was standing on the front steps of the TSBD.  There are photos and films that show Oswald wasn't there.  His coworkers like Frazier were there.  None of them claimed to see Oswald there.  Can you understand the difference between that situation and the 6th floor?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »


 

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