A Rock Solid Alibi.....


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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2022, 10:52:32 PM »
There is not an "absence of evidence."  There is an absence of Oswald.  LOL.  There are plenty of films and photos of Dealey Plaza during the motorcade.  They show the folks who WERE there.  Oswald is in none of them.  He was not the invisible man.  If he had stepped outside the TSBD to watch the motorcade,

Ah, I see what you did there, Mr Smith. Mr Oswald didn't "step outside the TSBD", he went out the front door of the building without leaving the premises---------i.e. front steps.

Next you'll be telling us, as you and your Warren Gullible pals always do, that Mr Oswald told a pressman he was "inside the building at the time"  :D

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he would have showed up in one of those films or photos.  He did not.  He is "absent" because he was not there.

OK, show us Mr Roy Edward Lewis outside @ assassination-time. If you can't, I will conclude that you believe Mr Lewis was not there.

And show us Mr Bill Shelley. If you can't, I will conclude that you believe Mr Shelley was not there.

 Thumb1:

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2022, 10:52:32 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2022, 11:15:47 PM »
'The most obvious interpretation' lol

I wrote the following interpretation of Hosty's note regarding Oswald's movements in the TSBD:

The most obvious interpretation of this being [IMO] that after Oswald had been up to the second floor for a Coke, he went down to the first floor, finished his lunch then went outside to watch the parade."

If you disagree with this interpretation let's hear yours.

When I wrote - "IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW THE PARADE" - that is not an interpretation, it's a fact.

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No one else remembered Mr Oswald making such a statement. Indeed, Agent Bookhout follows Insp. Kelley in giving us Mr Oswald's answer to the two other questions Insp. Kelley put to Mr Oswald in that interrogation, but his report says NOT A WORD about a third question, still less Mr Oswald's answer to it. He knew better than to put any such statement in Mr Oswald's mouth.

As for what led Insp. Kelley to write what he wrote, it's either explained as
a) fabrication on Insp. Kelley's part to incriminate Mr Oswald
b) he asked Mr Oswald 'Did you see Pres. Kennedy get shot?' and Mr Oswald responded 'No I didn't' (as the limousine was out of sight)

Kelley reports that Oswald said he did not see the parade - that's a fact. You can make up whatever you want to try to make it go away.

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Again, 'I, Dan O'Meara, don't like this explanation' is not a substantial rebuttal

When it comes to your "standing on the front steps is the same as being in the building" shtick it's a question of "I, Alan Ford, have lost the plot."

Oswald is reported as saying he went outside to watch the parade but didn't see it. The explanation is that Oswald publicly states he was in the building at the time of the shooting. Your painful mental contortions to try to make this otherwise are of no use.

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He saw Messrs Norman & Jarman before he went outside to watch the P. Parade
Agreed.

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A rather odd argument to be coming from someone who believes, as you do, that numerous employees of the Depository lied about things that went down that day. Now you're suddenly telling us that Messrs Lovelady and Shelley were the soul of honesty? Really, Mr O'Meara?

Besides, if Mr Oswald nipped outside at the last minute to watch the P. Parade, he (being a nobody at that time) was in all likelihood noticed by few of the others on those steps.

Trying to use the unreliability of Lovelady and Shelley to discredit everyone else reveals your desperation. As does your insistence he wasn't noticed by the people he supposedly passed to get out of the front door, not to mention those employees who knew him by sight returning up the TSBD building steps.
For a nobody he seemed to make a very strong (and negative) impression on many of his fellow employees. Not one employee reports seeing Oswald on the steps. Not a single one.

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And the ridiculous magic shadow down Mr Lovelady, which neither I nor you nor anyone else can explain as a natural shadow, strongly suggests that he was noticed by the 'investigating' authorities who first checked out the Wiegman film:
Only in your imagination.



Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2022, 11:20:59 PM »
There is not an "absence of evidence."  There is an absence of Oswald.  LOL.  There are plenty of films and photos of Dealey Plaza during the motorcade.  They show the folks who WERE there.  Oswald is in none of them.  He was not the invisible man.  If he had stepped outside the TSBD to watch the motorcade, he would have showed up in one of those films or photos.  He did not.  He is "absent" because he was not there.

What kind of ridiculous argument is that?  There are no films and photos showing Pauline Sanders during the motorcade either.  Does that demonstrate that she wasn't there?

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2022, 11:20:59 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2022, 12:07:41 AM »
Lee Oswald most certainly DID tell Captain Fritz that he was eating his lunch in the 1st floor lunchroom (Domino Room)  at the time of the P. parade. That is what Fritz jotted down in his scribbled notes which he wrote while interrogating Lee.  ( He lied and said he never took any notes during the interrogation. )

Where are Fritz's notes dated from Oswald's interrogation?   

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2022, 12:22:15 AM »
I wrote the following interpretation of Hosty's note regarding Oswald's movements in the TSBD:

The most obvious interpretation of this being [IMO] that after Oswald had been up to the second floor for a Coke, he went down to the first floor, finished his lunch then went outside to watch the parade."

If you disagree with this interpretation let's hear yours.

When I wrote - "IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW THE PARADE" - that is not an interpretation, it's a fact.

Agent Hosty is recording the suspect's key claims: his whereabouts at & around the time of the shooting. The absence of any further clarifying note------along the lines of "Then went outside to watch P. Parade, but heard three loud bangs just before doing so" or "Then went outside to watch P. Parade but it had already passed"-------renders your interpretation quite bizarre.

No less bizarre is your belief that Mr Oswald claimed he had a gun stuck in his gut by a cop and was told by a female employee the Pres. had just been shot, and then went downstairs to finish his lunch, before going outside in the belief that what he would be seeing there was... a P. Parade!  :D

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Kelley reports that Oswald said he did not see the parade - that's a fact. You can make up whatever you want to try to make it go away.

When it comes to your "standing on the front steps is the same as being in the building" shtick it's a question of "I, Alan Ford, have lost the plot."

Oswald is reported as saying he went outside to watch the parade but didn't see it. The explanation is that Oswald publicly states he was in the building at the time of the shooting.

The recessed front entrance steps are in the building. Only when you step out on to the sidewalk can you be said to have left the building

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Your painful mental contortions to try to make this otherwise are of no use.
Agreed.

Trying to use the unreliability of Lovelady and Shelley to discredit everyone else reveals your desperation.


Not if I believe that Messrs Lovelady & Shelley noticed Mr Oswald there. After all, we are agreed that they were egregious liars. So it's wildly inconsistent for you to now cite them as reliable witnesses

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As does your insistence he wasn't noticed by the people he supposedly passed to get out of the front door,

Tell us who he would have had to pass to get out of the front door? And then tell us which way everyone on those steps was looking as the motorcade turned onto Dealey Plaza  Thumb1:

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not to mention those employees who knew him by sight returning up the TSBD building steps.
For a nobody he seemed to make a very strong (and negative) impression on many of his fellow employees. Not one employee reports seeing Oswald on the steps. Not a single one.

Not one employee reports seeing Mr Roy Edward Lewis on the steps. Not a single one. So what?

Gee, if I didn't know better, I'd say that, what with the President's passing by and the pandemonium after the loud bangs, most folks were not that interested in doing a mental inventory of fellow employees present on the steps.

--

You evidently still cannot explain why there is a naturalistically impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in the Wiegman film. And yet you carry on insisting that there's nothing to see in the entranceway. Pure reality-denial!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 12:31:14 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2022, 12:22:57 AM »
Where are Fritz's notes dated from Oswald's interrogation?

They exist only in Mr Cakebread's imagination

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2022, 12:22:57 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2022, 12:33:47 AM »
These are Fritz's handwritten notes. The top page has "morning 23rd" written at the top.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=3

Second page has:

Claims 2nd floor Coke
when off came in
to 1st fl had lunch
out with Bill Shelley in front


Compare with Hosty's notes:

He went to 2nd
floor to get Coca Cola to eat with
lunch and returned to 1st floor to
eat lunch. Then went outside to watch
P. Parade


Pretty much the same story:
Oswald is up on the 2nd floor getting a Coke
Goes down to the first floor
Finishes lunch
Heads outside


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2022, 12:38:11 AM »
These are Fritz's handwritten notes. The top page has "morning 23rd" written at the top.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=3

Second page has:

Claims 2nd floor Coke
when off came in
to 1st fl had lunch
out with Bill Shelley in front


Compare with Hosty's notes:

He went to 2nd
floor to get Coca Cola to eat with
lunch and returned to 1st floor to
eat lunch. Then went outside to watch
P. Parade


Pretty much the same story:
Oswald is up on the 2nd floor getting a Coke
Goes down to the first floor
Finishes lunch
Heads outside

"Pretty much the same", lol

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Re: A Rock Solid Alibi.....
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2022, 12:38:11 AM »


 

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