Umbrella Man: Suspicious

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Online Richard Smith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2022, 11:26:22 PM »
Yeah all those people running to or heading for the grassy knoll were just in big rush to get out of the parking lot and beat the traffic.

The actions of those folks make perfect sense.  From the Elm St. perspective, the "grassy knoll" area is in close proximity to the location where JFK was shot AND appears to offer the most likely place for seclusion for an assassin.  We know, however, from our knowledge of that area, that the backside of the grassy knoll tree line and fence is open to half of Dallas.  No assassin could possibly stand there out in the open, commit the act, and escape unnoticed.  It is absurd.  Have you been there?  That area is wide open. 

The witnesses who headed toward the GK had no clue where the shots originated due to the sound distortions.  They didn't see a shooter there.  Visually the grassy knoll area was the most likely place for the reasons noted.  Someone headed there and others followed like sheep.  A perfectly reasonable act under the circumstances even with no shooter from that location.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2022, 11:26:22 PM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2022, 11:55:48 PM »
It seems the folks on the infield by then would have been hearing sirens from the direction in which they ran. The only viable pathway was the one with the steps that ran north off the Elm sidewalk. Those steps led to an opening between the wooden fence and the Pergola shelter.

I don't think there was anything unfolding in the Plaza infield, other then the cars and buses at the end of the motorcade going through. Phil Willia said he wondered why they were running into the parking lot when he knew the shots came from the Depository. The 2013 "NOVA" special on the assassination suggested shots fired from the Depository could be perceived as coming from the Underpass and behind the Pergola, depending on where one stood.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2022, 11:55:48 PM »

Online Sean Kneringer

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2022, 03:13:14 AM »
Yes, it was windy that day.


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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2022, 03:13:14 AM »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2022, 10:38:20 AM »
A review will show (Reply #98) that your claim about Bretzner and Willis was directly addressed. Still pictures won't show if the umbrella is being buffeted by the wind. The Zapruder film, however, does show exactly that.

 

The buffeting and movement of the umbrella is continuous and is first seen on the film at Z206, about 1/4 sec after Willis05 still slide. The wind raises up the umbrella, rotates it back-and-forth on its shaft and rocks the canopy towards the limousine and away from it.

Witt says he saw "the motorcade" approach. To me, that means he saw Kennedy. Do you think Witt was looking at the X-100's grille and not Kennedy?

    "Well, as I recall, the motorcade had already made the turn and was coming
     down Elm Street going west on Elm before I became aware it was there,
     and it would have been from a straightline position off to my left about like
     this [indicating] when I saw it."

    "The next thing I saw after I saw the car [the Presidential limousine] coming
     down the street, down the hill to my left ..."

    "Well, after I became aware of its presence [the Presidential limousine],
     I got up and took the umbrella and started walking toward the street and
     opening the umbrella at the same time."

    "I saw it  [the Presidential limousine] coming down on my left traveling west ..."

I mean, if Witt didn't see Kennedy coming down Elm, how would he know that was the moment to open the umbrella?

The point where Kennedy was shot in the neck I place in the low-Z220s. You know, where the Zapruder film shows the umbrella being buffeted by the wind.

Witt never said he didn't hear the cheering as the motorcade was on Houston. But he might have been like Zapruder, who thought the lead motorcycles meant the limousine was just behind. Zapruder then stopped filming until he actually saw the limousine. All Witt is saying is that the limousine was on Elm before he saw it ("it was traveling west at the time I saw it"). Witt couldn't see over to Houston Street because of the Elm Street slope.

So you hold your umbrella behind your back to release the catch and raise it? Must be quite a trick. Of course, Witt would have to hold the umbrella in front of him before he even raised it. You look down to release the catch and slide the umbrella up along the shaft.

As I told you, Witt mentions several times he saw the "motorcade" or "car" (meaning the Presidential limousine) come down Elm before he decided to open his umbrella. The Betzner and Willis photos can't speak to whether Witt is caught off-guard by the wind filling his umbrella and that he has to maintain control of it.

Kennedy is pass Witt's position, so why does Witt think Kennedy would see his umbrella? Witt could be looking towards the cars that followed the limousine to see if the local Texas politicians get the message. Or maybe his umbrella is being buffeted again. He looks towards the limousine in time to see Clint Hill make it to the rear bumper, which was post-headshot.

Witt might not have seen Hill "jump off" but assumed he did; where else would an agent had come from to be racing towards the limo's rear bumper if not from the Queen Mary followup car that Witt said was close to the limousine? Witnesses have been known to add little embellishments based on sound assumptions.

I'm sure you smell BS a lot where you're at.

Witt must have seen the President if he decided to walk towards some particular "car" and open his umbrella. Witt has to spell that out for you? And the Zapruder film shows the wind buffeting the umbrella just as Kennedy goes pass, so Witt could have been distracted. Witt didn't like Kennedy, he had seen enough of him to know he was approaching; maybe Witt felt self-conscious and at the last moment didn't want to stare down Kennedy.

You can't even keep track of the posts that address your points in this Topic thread.

PROBLEMS WITH THE "ORGAN BUFFETING THEORY"

In his HSCA testimony, Witt is crystal clear - when he first became aware of the motorcade coming down Elm he was sat on the grass. He stood up, began to move forward whilst opening his umbrella. As he was trying to open the umbrella it was in front of him obscuring his view.
Witt testifies that, as the umbrella was obscuring his view whilst he was opening it, at least three shots were fired. Because his view was obscured by the umbrella, Witt never saw JFK get shot. The very first thing he was aware of once the umbrella was up, was the limo slowing down and Clint Hill jumping from one vehicle to the next.
The problem with this testimony is that it is completely refuted by the film/photo record.
Witt states that the first thing he saw was the limo slowing down and Hill jumping off one vehicle and onto the other. This is the moment of the headshot at z312. However, in Willis5 (z202), we see the umbrella in the raised position, and UM has a clear LoS to the limo. This is 6 seconds before the headshot.



Betzner3 shows the umbrella was in the raised position even earlier,at z186:



This is 7 seconds before the headshot!


There is something seriously wrong with Witt's HSCA testimony.
And because of this massive discrepancy between Witt's testimony and the film/photo record, Jerry has felt compelled to introduce the "Organ Buffeting Theory". In this delightful fairy-tale the reason Witt's view is obscured is not due to him raising the umbrella but because the umbrella was buffeted by the wind.

I'll let that sink in for a minute.

Although Jerry has disingenuously insisted on a number of occasions that Witt mentioned the umbrella being buffeted by the wind - this is not true. Nowhere in his testimony does Witt mention the wind or buffeting or anything of that nature. This is purely Jerry's invention.
Witt is absolutely clear - his view is obscured as he puts the umbrella up. That's that.

In his post Jerry provides this helpful gif to demonstrate the perils of buffeting:



Please note that although the umbrella is being buffeted at no point is the lady's vision obscured.

The UM had an unobscured LoS to the limo at least seven seconds before Witt claims to have become aware of the action.
The umbrella was up before a single shot had been fired - in contrast with Witt's testimony where all three shots are fired while he is messing with the umbrella.
How can Witt's testimony be so different from the film/photo evidence?
It really is suspicious.


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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2022, 10:38:20 AM »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #124 on: August 05, 2022, 12:25:48 PM »
Wind Factor Dealey Plaza

NCDC - National Climatic Data Center
US Department of Commerce - Weather Bureau
Surface Weather Observations
Dallas, Texas (Dallas Love Field) NOV 22 1963
Time Temp Direction Knots MPH

1055 57 SW 10

1130 WSW 12 14

1155 63 WSW 13 15

1230 W 13 15

1255 67 WNW 17 20

1330 WNW 17+25

1355 69 WNW 19+26

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #124 on: August 05, 2022, 12:25:48 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #125 on: August 05, 2022, 03:04:23 PM »
Yes, it was windy that day.



Marion Baker noted that the wind almost blew him over on his motorcycle:

Mr. BELIN - You said you were going down Main Street at around Record at from 5 to 10 miles an hour?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you take up your trip from there, please?
Mr. BAKER - As we approached the corner there of Main and Houston we were making a right turn, and as I came out behind that building there, which is the county courthouse, the sheriff building, well, there was a strong wind hit me and I almost lost my balance.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #125 on: August 05, 2022, 03:04:23 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #126 on: August 05, 2022, 03:18:13 PM »
Marion Baker noted that the wind almost blew him over on his motorcycle:

Mr. BELIN - You said you were going down Main Street at around Record at from 5 to 10 miles an hour?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you take up your trip from there, please?
Mr. BAKER - As we approached the corner there of Main and Houston we were making a right turn, and as I came out behind that building there, which is the county courthouse, the sheriff building, well, there was a strong wind hit me and I almost lost my balance.

The wind currents around buildings, trees, etc can sometimes increase in velocity as it is squeezed between structures. A wind from the west at 10 to 13 mph might have been substantially higher in velocity as it entered Dealey Plaza and the structures there.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #126 on: August 05, 2022, 03:18:13 PM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #127 on: August 05, 2022, 04:35:50 PM »
The wind currents around buildings, trees, etc can sometimes increase in velocity as it is squeezed between structures. A wind from the west at 10 to 13 mph might have been substantially higher in velocity as it entered Dealey Plaza and the structures there.

The "Urban Canyon Effect" explains why, when the limousine drove up Houston, the flags on the car were blowing opposite to the wind direction (that is, from the east, rather than from the west as in the weather report for that time).



Altgens05 showing flags affected by wind redirected off the building facade.



Air pressure is less at open building
corners, so deflection is less.

 


Dorman frame showing flags blowing towards the west;
woman's jacket is being buffeted.

 


Diagram of Canyon Effect wind.
 

Now we wait for some JFK Conspiracy Loon to claim Canyon Effect is a "myth" and that the wind really was blowing from the east, opposite to how the wind is blowing in the Zapruder film. If the Loon is also a Trump supporter, it won't be long.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #127 on: August 05, 2022, 04:35:50 PM »

Online Sean Kneringer

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2022, 05:20:55 PM »
JFK fixing his hair with his hand after it was mussed by the wind.



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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2022, 05:20:55 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #129 on: August 05, 2022, 10:20:13 PM »
Wind Factor Dealey Plaza

NCDC - National Climatic Data Center
US Department of Commerce - Weather Bureau
Surface Weather Observations
Dallas, Texas (Dallas Love Field) NOV 22 1963
Time Temp Direction Knots MPH
1155 63 WSW 13 15
 1230 W 13 15
The only thing windy around here are the critics ... that don't see anything dubious about anything unless it points to Lee Oswald and only Lee Oswald.
There are pictures/film clip of an umbrella being raised just as the limo goes by...just as shots are fired and right before the strike to the head [another incredibly remarkable coincidence] In the Witt testimony..I did not find him saying 'wind', 'buffeted' or blown around. I could have missed it maybe.

 https://weatherspark.com/h/m/8813/1963/11/Historical-Weather-in-November-1963-in-Dallas-Texas-United-States

 

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