Umbrella Man: Suspicious

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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2022, 08:34:33 PM »
Those are still pictures that can't speak to the umbrella being buffeted by the wind.

Or--since he was named by conspiracy loons as a Presidential assassin--Witt probably wanted to downplay his "number of shots I heard", "the spacing of shots seemed to me to be" and "I saw Kennedy react on such-and-such a shot" so as to dissuade further stalking by the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Loon. He might have heard about how other witnesses were being abused by Loons on such matters, and since he wasn't sure on those things, he choose to keep them to himself. One of those Republicans who don't like being told by the Government or strange individuals what to do.

Billy Lovelady had to move out of Parkland and many Parkland doctors complained about Loons trying to make them change their testimony to fit the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Loon Theory (ie: anybody-but-Oswald).

Witt produced the ten-rib umbrella and showed it did not contain a gun or "launcher". He explained why he was there as a protester and that he had some trouble when his umbrella was buffeted by the wind, as the Zapruder film shows it was. It's sad how the Loons have polluted the witness pool to the point of casting spurious suspicion on the honesty ("lying") and mental ability ("truly catastrophic memory") of witnesses like Witt who don't conform.

You need to read Witt's testimony.
He states he was putting the umbrella up when the shots were fired. He didn't see anything because the umbrella was in front of him while he was putting it up.
This is absolutely refuted by the film/photographic evidence.
How do you explain that?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 11:25:04 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2022, 08:34:33 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2022, 06:11:08 AM »

How do you explain that?
Also...explain the radio man.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2022, 06:11:08 AM »

Online Gerry Down

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2022, 01:08:20 PM »
Also...explain the radio man.

Transistor radio? Probably was listening to the radio coverage of the motorcade. His enthusiastic wave as seen on the Zapruder film shows he was probably a JFK fan for his position on civil rights.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2022, 01:08:20 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2022, 08:22:31 PM »
Transistor radio? Probably was listening to the radio coverage of the motorcade. His enthusiastic wave as seen on the Zapruder film shows he was probably a JFK fan for his position on civil rights.
Well I concede that this is all entirely/conceivably possible. But why listen to news broadcasting when someone is actually there... live and beholding the event?
I mean come on...he was a witness to a homicide....so was umbrella dude but what did they do?---casually stroll away in opposite directions while most others were scurrying around and seemingly wanted to confront what happened.
Why didn't this "enthusiastic JFK fan" stick around and scrutinize the situation rather than dodge the area and seemingly slip away?



It looks like this guy could be speaking into a transistor radio? two-way radio...suspicious if so.
 

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2022, 08:22:31 PM »

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2022, 09:24:44 PM »
Possible Photograph blur streaks in the photograph? ::) I've highlighted four streaks all with the same angle. There are many more in the full photograph. 


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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2022, 09:24:44 PM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2022, 09:47:30 PM »
You need to read Witt's testimony.
He states he was putting the umbrella up when the shots were fired. He didn't see anything because the umbrella was in front of him while he was putting it up.
This is absolutely refuted by the film/photographic evidence.
How do you explain that?

Witt seems to be referring to missing the President being wounded during one of the moments when he was struggling with umbrella (the Zapruder film shows the umbrella being buffeted by the wind, just like Witt said).



Wind whipping the coats of some of the women.

Elsewhere Witt says he saw the motorcade approach and pass him. He describes the slowing down of the limousine. I don't see where Witt said he never saw the President. Witt guesses he might have heard three shots but he didn't think they were gunfire at the time.

You should be ashamed of yourself for promoting the mercenary character assassination of a fine Republican Goldwaterite.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2022, 09:47:30 PM »

Online Sean Kneringer

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2022, 11:24:20 PM »
"He was moving the umbrella up and down!"

Well how else was he supposed to get Kennedy's attention?

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2022, 11:24:20 PM »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #107 on: August 03, 2022, 01:18:49 AM »
Witt seems to be referring to missing the President being wounded during one of the moments when he was struggling with umbrella (the Zapruder film shows the umbrella being buffeted by the wind, just like Witt said).

You have clearly not read Witt's HSCA testimony yet you feel qualified to comment on it.
Firstly, nowhere in his testimony does he refer to the umbrella being buffeted by the wind. It's weird that you keep insisting he says that when you haven't read his testimony.

In the post you are responding to I pointed out a clear contradiction in Witt's testimony when compared to the film/photo record and asked you to explain it :

[Witt] states he was putting the umbrella up when the shots were fired. He didn't see anything because the umbrella was in front of him while he was putting it up.
This is absolutely refuted by the film/photographic evidence.
How do you explain that?


You're "explanation" was meaningless in that you simply repeated the point I was making in my post but ignored the part about how it was refuted by the film/photo record:

Witt seems to be referring to missing the President being wounded during one of the moments when he was struggling with umbrella


Yes Gerry, he is referring to missing the President being wounded while he was struggling with his umbrella. The point being that in Willis5 (z202) and Betzner3 (z186) the umbrella is already in the raised position. These photos were taken before the President was wounded.
This is photographic evidence that Witt is not being truthful.
UM is stood in position with his umbrella raised before the President arrives at his position, before JFK is wounded.
If Witt's story has any credence, he is there to heckle JFK, his sole focus is JFK. UM is in position, umbrella raised, before the limo reaches him, as the limo reaches him he raises his umbrella (as shown in the Z-film). If this is indeed Witt, he must have been watching JFK as he came closer, at the moment JFK reached his position he raised his umbrella in order to heckle JFK.
The problem is, he must have seen JFK shot through the throat and then watched as JFK's head explodes.

But Witt doesn't see these things.
Witt testifies that he is sitting on the grass when he is first aware of the motorcade coming down Elm Street. He apparently doesn't hear the crowds cheering as it passes down Houston.
He stands and begins to walk forward, as he does he begins to open his umbrella.
For some unspecified reason he is having trouble putting up an umbrella.
As he holds it in front of him, it obscures his view and the shots ring out (although he is not aware of the shots).

"...At that time I was moving forward with this umbrella in front of me, I was not aware of what was happening, even though I had heard the shots, until the movement, all this activity with the cars. That was my first awareness, and it was at this point I just sat down."

The "activity with the cars" is a reference to the limo slowing down:

"...As I was moving forward I apparently had this umbrella in front of me for some few steps. Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements: I did not see this because of this thing [the umbrella] in front of me. The next thing I saw...there was a car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars. One car ran upon the President's car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things."


According to Witt he couldn't see anything because of the umbrella until the moment the limo slowed down and Hill jumped from one car to the next. This is patently not true for Umbrella Man. He is stood there, umbrella raised, with a clear view of JFK and the oncoming limo, way before it begins to slow down.
What's more, the moment Hill jumps from the follow-up car is the moment of the head-shot. JFK's head explodes but Witt doesn't see it. Really?
He sees Hill jump, he sees Jackie climbing onto the trunk but he doesn't see the head-shot?
Smells like  BS: to me.

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Elsewhere Witt says he saw the motorcade approach and pass him. He describes the slowing down of the limousine. I don't see where Witt said he never saw the President. Witt guesses he might have heard three shots but he didn't think they were gunfire at the time.

I'm not sure what this ramble is about but at no point have I ever said "Witt said he never saw the President."
It was a really weird thing for you to just blurt out.
But now you come to mention it, there is not a single mention of seeing JFK in his testimony. It was supposed to be the whole point of his visit to Dealey Plaza. In fact, there are two moments in his testimony that stand out in this regard:

"Mr. GENZMAN. Did President Kennedy see your umbrella?
Mr. WITT. I have no way of knowing. I really don't."


Why does Witt "have no way of knowing"?. If he was UM, and he was really there to heckle JFK, he would've been staring right at JFK.

After describing the limo slowing down Witt states:

"I recall there was a movement in the President's car. By this time-I don't recall seeing the President . He must have-I
am sure he was down."


Witt makes a point of saying he doesn't see the President but at no time, during the whole of his testimony, does he mention seeing the President.

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You should be ashamed of yourself for promoting the mercenary character assassination of a fine Republican Goldwaterite.

Witt's testimony stinks.
If you'd read it you'd know.
You should be ashamed as a researcher.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 01:25:17 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #107 on: August 03, 2022, 01:18:49 AM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #108 on: August 03, 2022, 04:34:35 AM »
You have clearly not read Witt's HSCA testimony yet you feel qualified to comment on it.
Firstly, nowhere in his testimony does he refer to the umbrella being buffeted by the wind. It's weird that you keep insisting he says that when you haven't read his testimony.

In the post you are responding to I pointed out a clear contradiction in Witt's testimony when compared to the film/photo record and asked you to explain it :

[Witt] states he was putting the umbrella up when the shots were fired. He didn't see anything because the umbrella was in front of him while he was putting it up.
This is absolutely refuted by the film/photographic evidence.
How do you explain that?


You're "explanation" was meaningless in that you simply repeated the point I was making in my post but ignored the part about how it was refuted by the film/photo record:

Witt seems to be referring to missing the President being wounded during one of the moments when he was struggling with umbrella

Yes Gerry, he is referring to missing the President being wounded while he was struggling with his umbrella. The point being that in Willis5 (z202) and Betzner3 (z186) the umbrella is already in the raised position. These photos were taken before the President was wounded.
This is photographic evidence that Witt is not being truthful.

A review will show (Reply #98) that your claim about Bretzner and Willis was directly addressed. Still pictures won't show if the umbrella is being buffeted by the wind. The Zapruder film, however, does show exactly that.

 

The buffeting and movement of the umbrella is continuous and is first seen on the film at Z206, about 1/4 sec after Willis05 still slide. The wind raises up the umbrella, rotates it back-and-forth on its shaft and rocks the canopy towards the limousine and away from it.

Quote
UM is stood in position with his umbrella raised before the President arrives at his position, before JFK is wounded.
If Witt's story has any credence, he is there to heckle JFK, his sole focus is JFK. UM is in position, umbrella raised, before the limo reaches him, as the limo reaches him he raises his umbrella (as shown in the Z-film). If this is indeed Witt, he must have been watching JFK as he came closer, at the moment JFK reached his position he raised his umbrella in order to heckle JFK.

Witt says he saw "the motorcade" approach. To me, that means he saw Kennedy. Do you think Witt was looking at the X-100's grille and not Kennedy?

    "Well, as I recall, the motorcade had already made the turn and was coming
     down Elm Street going west on Elm before I became aware it was there,
     and it would have been from a straightline position off to my left about like
     this [indicating] when I saw it."

    "The next thing I saw after I saw the car [the Presidential limousine] coming
     down the street, down the hill to my left ..."

    "Well, after I became aware of its presence [the Presidential limousine],
     I got up and took the umbrella and started walking toward the street and
     opening the umbrella at the same time."

    "I saw it  [the Presidential limousine] coming down on my left traveling west ..."

I mean, if Witt didn't see Kennedy coming down Elm, how would he know that was the moment to open the umbrella?

Quote
The problem is, he must have seen JFK shot through the throat and then watched as JFK's head explodes.

The point where Kennedy was shot in the neck I place in the low-Z220s. You know, where the Zapruder film shows the umbrella being buffeted by the wind.

Quote
But Witt doesn't see these things.
Witt testifies that he is sitting on the grass when he is first aware of the motorcade coming down Elm Street. He apparently doesn't hear the crowds cheering as it passes down Houston.

Witt never said he didn't hear the cheering as the motorcade was on Houston. But he might have been like Zapruder, who thought the lead motorcycles meant the limousine was just behind. Zapruder then stopped filming until he actually saw the limousine. All Witt is saying is that the limousine was on Elm before he saw it ("it was traveling west at the time I saw it"). Witt couldn't see over to Houston Street because of the Elm Street slope.

Quote
He stands and begins to walk forward, as he does he begins to open his umbrella.
For some unspecified reason he is having trouble putting up an umbrella.
As he holds it in front of him, it obscures his view and the shots ring out (although he is not aware of the shots).

So you hold your umbrella behind your back to release the catch and raise it? Must be quite a trick. Of course, Witt would have to hold the umbrella in front of him before he even raised it. You look down to release the catch and slide the umbrella up along the shaft.

Quote
"...At that time I was moving forward with this umbrella in front of me, I was not aware of what was happening, even though I had heard the shots, until the movement, all this activity with the cars. That was my first awareness, and it was at this point I just sat down."

The "activity with the cars" is a reference to the limo slowing down:

"...As I was moving forward I apparently had this umbrella in front of me for some few steps. Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements: I did not see this because of this thing [the umbrella] in front of me. The next thing I saw...there was a car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars. One car ran upon the President's car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things."


According to Witt he couldn't see anything because of the umbrella until the moment the limo slowed down and Hill jumped from one car to the next. This is patently not true for Umbrella Man. He is stood there, umbrella raised, with a clear view of JFK and the oncoming limo, way before it begins to slow down.

As I told you, Witt mentions several times he saw the "motorcade" or "car" (meaning the Presidential limousine) come down Elm before he decided to open his umbrella. The Betzner and Willis photos can't speak to whether Witt is caught off-guard by the wind filling his umbrella and that he has to maintain control of it.

Quote
What's more, the moment Hill jumps from the follow-up car is the moment of the head-shot. JFK's head explodes but Witt doesn't see it. Really?

Kennedy is pass Witt's position, so why does Witt think Kennedy would see his umbrella? Witt could be looking towards the cars that followed the limousine to see if the local Texas politicians get the message. Or maybe his umbrella is being buffeted again. He looks towards the limousine in time to see Clint Hill make it to the rear bumper, which was post-headshot.

Witt might not have seen Hill "jump off" but assumed he did; where else would an agent had come from to be racing towards the limo's rear bumper if not from the Queen Mary followup car that Witt said was close to the limousine? Witnesses have been known to add little embellishments based on sound assumptions.

Quote
He sees Hill jump, he sees Jackie climbing onto the trunk but he doesn't see the head-shot?
Smells like  BS: to me.

I'm sure you smell BS a lot where you're at.

Quote
I'm not sure what this ramble is about but at no point have I ever said "Witt said he never saw the President."
It was a really weird thing for you to just blurt out.
But now you come to mention it, there is not a single mention of seeing JFK in his testimony. It was supposed to be the whole point of his visit to Dealey Plaza. In fact, there are two moments in his testimony that stand out in this regard:

"Mr. GENZMAN. Did President Kennedy see your umbrella?
Mr. WITT. I have no way of knowing. I really don't."


Why does Witt "have no way of knowing"?. If he was UM, and he was really there to heckle JFK, he would've been staring right at JFK.

Witt must have seen the President if he decided to walk towards some particular "car" and open his umbrella. Witt has to spell that out for you? And the Zapruder film shows the wind buffeting the umbrella just as Kennedy goes pass, so Witt could have been distracted. Witt didn't like Kennedy, he had seen enough of him to know he was approaching; maybe Witt felt self-conscious and at the last moment didn't want to stare down Kennedy.

Quote
After describing the limo slowing down Witt states:

"I recall there was a movement in the President's car. By this time-I don't recall seeing the President . He must have-I
am sure he was down."


Witt makes a point of saying he doesn't see the President but at no time, during the whole of his testimony, does he mention seeing the President.

Witt's testimony stinks.
If you'd read it you'd know.
You should be ashamed as a researcher.

You can't even keep track of the posts that address your points in this Topic thread.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #108 on: August 03, 2022, 04:34:35 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2022, 01:25:56 PM »
A review will show (Reply #98) that your claim about Bretzner and Willis was directly addressed. Still pictures won't show if the umbrella is being buffeted by the wind. The Zapruder film, however, does show exactly that. The wind raises up the umbrella, rotates it back-and-forth on its shaft and rocks the canopy towards the limousine and away from it.

Here is the whole film once again.....

One might notice that the flag on the limo is not really blowing around all that much.
Ladies skirts and dresses aren't moving in the wind either.
 
Quote
The wind raises up the umbrella
The wind? The wind raised up the umbrella and rotated it? So you didn't need a guy there ...just an umbrella :D :D

 

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