Umbrella Man: Suspicious


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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2022, 03:09:21 PM »
This ranks up there with the red rings fairy tale.  Do you really think JFK would see an umbrella in the crowd and think to himself this is a "reminder" of the "umbrellas of air cover" at the Bay of Pigs?  HA HA HA HA HA.  Comedy gold.  I truly hope you don't believe this tin foil hat nonsense.  But I can't resist playing along.  Why would your fantasy conspirators want to "remind" him of this event just moments before killing him?

Do you really think JFK would see an umbrella in the crowd and think to himself this is a "reminder" of the "umbrellas of air cover" at the Bay of Pigs?

What I think is irrelevant ...... The Cuban exiles apparently thought they could deliver that message with the umbrella...They . thought JFK had betrayed them....and they wanted revenge for what the their CIA handlers told them was betrayal at BOP.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2022, 03:09:21 PM »


Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2022, 04:29:11 PM »
There's a long documented history of Neville Chamberlain being called "umbrella man" and the umbrella being considered a symbol of his appeasement and appeasement in general....

Even if that was the guy's aim with the umbrella on Dealey Plaza, I can't see any credible relevance to the assassination.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2022, 04:33:48 PM »
Here's one of the many ridiculous CT notions that will not die - Chamberlain was famous for his umbrella!
In the '30's a staggering amount of male, middle/upper class professionals carried an umbrella. The uniform of the "city gent" was a bowler hat and umbrella. Umbrellas were everywhere, it's like saying Chamberlain was famous for wearing trousers.

What Chamberlain was famous for - and it's directly to do with appeasement - is stepping off a plane after his return from Munich and waving a white piece of paper (the peace agreement signed with Hitler) and claiming "we have peace for our time" [d'oh!]
This is from an article about Umbrella Man [https://www.businessinsider.com/jfk-umbrella-manmore-doubts-2011-12?r=US&IR=T]:

"According to John Simkin, a retired British history teacher and textbook author who runs the historical website Spartacus Educational, the umbrella was never the symbol of Chamberlain that the “umbrella man” claimed he was.

“In Britain, there was never any association with an umbrella at all,” Simkin told me. “Everyone had umbrellas and bowlers in those days.” According to Simkin, the only proper symbol for Chamberlain and appeasement was a piece of paper. That was the document he held aloft, with Hitler’s signature to the so-called Munich Agreement—in which Hitler agreed not to seek any further territorial gains in Europe—as Chamberlain famously declared that he had secured “peace in our time.” (In this old newsreel, you can see Chamberlain hold aloft that document.)

Simkin finds the New York Times video’s assertion that the purpose of opening the umbrella and pumping it in the air to signal Munich simply laughable."


And it is laughable - but it won't go away.
Another myth to dispel is the "pumping action" of the umbrella. It doesn't happen.
In Zapruder it is just about discernible that the umbrella is being raised [using Stemmons sign as a guide] and that it is turning slightly. That's it.
In all other photos the umbrella is already up. As the Presidential limo approaches the umbrella is raised in the air.
What is also laughable is the notion this is being used as a signal for a shooter (or shooters) to fire/continue firing. I can just imagine the meeting when that was arranged - "An umbrella? But what if it's sunny?"

That said, Witt's HSCA testimony is hard to swallow. In it he states that as the motorcade is coming down Elm he is sat on the grass of the grassy knoll. He stands up, begins to walk forward whilst opening up his umbrella. As he is opening his umbrella he hears three or more shots (but doesn't recognise them as shot sat the time), and misses what is going on because he still hasn't opened his umbrella. By the time he gets his umbrella open he is aware of the limo slowing down, a Secret Service agent running towards the limo and "a pink movement...Jackie Kennedy, I think, wearing a pink dress or something."
At best, this is a catastrophically bad memory, at worst, a complete fabrication.
Willis 5, thought to represent Zapruder frame 202, shows the umbrella clearly raised. This is way before the throat shot or the head shot. In fact, I believe Betzner 3 (z186) shows the umbrella already up in place even earlier. It's partially obscured but it is picked out by the red arrow below:



Witt goes on to state he never saw JFK hit, was unaware he'd been shot and was only aware that there had been slowing down of the limo and Hill running towards it. Yet he was aware "something terrible had happened" and was so stunned by what he'd not seen he had to sit down.
Witt claims to remember the limo slowing down and Hill running from one car to the other. This is the moment of the head shot, the moment JFK's head explodes yet Witt seems to have missed this detail. Strange, considering he'd made the effort to go out of his way to heckle JFK specifically.

So, we have Witt's nonsense reason for taking his umbrella to Dealey Plaza that day and his catastrophically bad memory of the event (almost as if he wasn't there). But that's not the end of the weirdness.
As everyone around him flees the scene in horror, Witt has a sit down. He either joins or is joined by DCM, who also decides, very unusually given the situation, to have a sit down. I tried to track down the earliest record of this event and thought I'd found it in the Couch film. This screenshot is taken around 30-35 seconds after the headshot:



However, after carefully scanning the Wiegmen film, I believe I have an even earlier record of the event. It's poor quality, and not helped by the camera flying all over the place, but I believe the red arrow in the cropped picture below shows the two men:



I calculate this image to have been taken 6-8 seconds after the headshot. It seems a bizarrely short amount of time for the two men to be already in position.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 04:43:46 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2022, 04:33:48 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2022, 04:47:26 PM »
Here's one of the many ridiculous CT notions that will not die - Chamberlain was famous for his umbrella!
In the '30's a staggering amount of male, middle/upper class professionals carried an umbrella. The uniform of the "city gent" was a bowler hat and umbrella. Umbrellas were everywhere, it's like saying Chamberlain was famous for wearing trousers
.

Well, I think yes and no. The umbrella became a political symbol of Chamberlain's appeasement. As I noted above, there was a very influential book written in 1940 - "Guilty Men" - that denounced 15 British noted figures for their support of the failed policy of appeasement of Hitler. Chamberlain was specifically called "Umbrella Man" in a chapter and elsewhere.

Here's an excerpt from the piece linked below: "Neville Chamberlain’s umbrella was ubiquitous during the Munich Crisis and in its aftermath, as material object, as commodity, and as political emblem that came to represent the temperament and character of the “Man of Peace” who had brought relief to the world by striking a “gentleman’s peace” with Hitler on 30 September, 1938. This culminated in the damning portrayal of the Prime Minister as the “Umbrella Man” in ‘Cato’s’ Guilty Men (1940).

Full piece here:  https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/101366/3/Chamberlain%27sUmbrellaArticle2ndRevisions.pdf

LBJ used the very phrase - "umbrella policy man" - in his campaign against JFK. He was referring to Joe Kennedy Sr. and his support of that policy.

I don't know how John Simkins, a British historian, couldn't know the history of the term. As I said above, the book "Guilty Men" was reportedly very influential during the period in question.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 10:26:35 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2022, 05:02:38 PM »
Spotters for what?  Anyone in Dealey Plaza could see and hear the motorcade as it approached but the fantasy conspirators need someone conspicuous to stand out in the open and bring attention to himself?  Unreal. Again, I hope no one actually takes this seriously and are just passing the time with a game of make up a good story because this is Bigfoot and ghost hunter territory.
The "hobbyists" are one thing; the "true believers" are a another. It's this latter group - the followers of the disgraceful and deranged Jim Garrison - that can cause problems. The Stone movies, the movie about the Paines. People believe these falsehoods.

It's remarkable that Jim Garrison, the most irresponsible JFK conspiracist of them all, the person who was denounced by the others, e.g., Meagher, Lifton, Lane, Weisberg, as a fraud, has emerged as the leader of this cause. 




Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2022, 05:10:33 PM »
  Again, I hope no one actually takes this seriously and are just passing the time...
No one ever takes you seriously.
You apparently are suspicious of nothing and not even very suspicious of that....
...and just passing gas time.

The "hobbyists" are one thing; the "true believers" are a another. It's this latter group - the followers of the disgraceful and deranged Jim Garrison - that can cause problems. The Stone movies, the movie about the Paines. People believe these falsehoods. It's remarkable that Jim Garrison, the most irresponsible JFK conspiracist of them all, the person who was denounced by the others, e.g., Meagher, Lifton, Lane, Weisberg, as a fraud, has emerged as the leader of this cause.
What are you babbling about? How do we know you're not 'deranged'?

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2022, 05:10:33 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2022, 05:14:55 PM »
Again, in his campaign against JFK in 1960, LBJ referred to the "umbrella policy man", i.e., Neville Chamberlain, and how JFK's father supported it. This below is from the Robert Dallek book on JFK.


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2022, 05:26:38 PM »
Jim Garrison: "JFK was killed in a homosexual thrill kill by Lee Oswald, David Ferrie and Clay Shaw."

If you think that's not evidence of derangement then I think you need to reconsider things.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2022, 05:26:38 PM »


 

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