Umbrella Man: Suspicious

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Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2022, 03:59:12 PM »

Here is the whole film once again.....

One might notice that the flag on the limo is not really blowing around all that much.

The Presidential flag seems to be being whipped strongly by the wind. And it's mostly to do with the wind because the flag blows away from the line-of-travel. Some of the One-Percent flag is pinned by the same wind against the right-front fender. It lifts off the surface briefly and intermittently because the surface of the fender has air pressure built up from the wind. So it's not flapping freely in the air like Trump's comb-over.



Same flag pinned
against fender earlier.
 


When flag became
pinned against fender.
 


Presidential flag being
whipped by the wind.

Quote
Ladies skirts and dresses aren't moving in the wind either.
Sure, Skeptic-Tank.


The ladies seem to be
leaning into the wind.

In Anybody-But-Oswald Land,
there's no wind, just hot air.

Quote
The wind? The wind raised up the umbrella and rotated it? So you didn't need a guy there ...just an umbrella :D :D

The umbrella isn't being rotated by hand. The wind is making the canopy rotate back-and-forth on the shaft. The canopy also dips back-and-forth towards Zapruder, which seems unlikely for an umbrella under tight control. Witt might have contributed to the umbrella raising about then but he then had to struggle with the wind.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2022, 03:59:12 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2022, 04:44:42 PM »
The Presidential flag seems to be being whipped strongly by the wind. And it's mostly to do with the wind because the flag blows away from the line-of-travel. Some of the One-Percent flag is pinned by the same wind against the right-front fender. It lifts off the surface briefly and intermittently because the surface of the fender has air pressure built up from the wind. So it's not flapping freely in the air like Trump's comb-over.



Same flag pinned
against fender earlier.
 


When flag became
pinned against fender.
 


Presidential flag being
whipped by the wind.
Sure, Skeptic-Tank.


The ladies seem to be
leaning into the wind.

In Anybody-But-Oswald Land,
there's no wind, just hot air.

The umbrella isn't being rotated by hand. The wind is making the canopy rotate back-and-forth on the shaft. The canopy also dips back-and-forth towards Zapruder, which seems unlikely for an umbrella under tight control. Witt might have contributed to the umbrella raising about then but he then had to struggle with the wind.
There is no evidence - for me - that a team of snipers shot JFK using coordinated triangulated fire. None. The evidence for me is that JFK was shot by one person firing in a location behind him. No multiple sniper teams, no coordinated fire.

So who was Witt or "umbrella man" coordinating? Where did this supposed triangulated fire come from? Where did Witt/UM get his orders? Where is the evidence he was a "cog" in this conspiracy machine? Because he flapped an umbrella? And because his account of what he did and saw - as with many witnesses in Dealey Plaza - is not corroborated by films and photos? Many witnesses gave accounts of what they remembered seeing or doing that are wrong. Our memories are not little cameras that accurately record everything.

This is typical conspiracy thinking. Conspiracy first and then search for evidence, real or imagined, of the conspiracy. A guy waving an umbrella is not some guy doing goofy things; no it's a signal.


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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2022, 04:44:42 PM »

Online Sean Kneringer

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2022, 06:22:12 PM »
If Witt was part of a conspiracy, why would he voluntarily come forward and subject himself to a barrage of questions that could expose him?

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2022, 06:22:12 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2022, 08:31:29 PM »
Quote
A guy waving an umbrella.. it's a signal.
Would someone want to bet that it has never happened before?
Quote
The Presidential flag seems to be being whipped strongly by the wind.
Naturally...the car is moving. The ladies loose skirts and dresses are not moving even slightly. Argue that [most likely will]
If Witt was part of a conspiracy, why would he voluntarily come forward and subject himself to a barrage of questions that could expose him?
  No one here has claimed that Witt was a conspirator in the assassination.
 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 08:48:54 PM by Jerry Freeman »

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2022, 08:31:29 PM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2022, 09:19:42 PM »
Would someone want to bet that it has never happened before?  Naturally...the car is moving. The ladies loose skirts and dresses are not moving even slightly. Argue that [most likely will]  No one here has claimed that Witt was a conspirator in the assassination.
 

Skeptic-Tank's claim that only the line-of-travel moved the flag (if so, why only one flag?). Seems more like a cross-wind going on with the Presidential flag bowing off to the side at times.

     

Wind blowing open Hill's and Moorman's heavy fall coats.

     

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2022, 09:19:42 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2022, 10:58:11 PM »
Quote
Wind blowing open Hill's and Moorman's heavy fall coats.
Now you weighed their coats?  :D
You are out on strikes [I gave you 4] with the wind buffeting the umbrella.
 There is still not enough to demonstrate it taking off like a kite...sorry.
The film shows it rising perfectly upward as a wounded [not yet destroyed] JFK goes by.
Your TUM remains suspiciously suspicious.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2022, 10:58:11 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2022, 03:32:24 PM »
There is no evidence - for me - that a team of snipers shot JFK using coordinated triangulated fire. None. The evidence for me is that JFK was shot by one person firing in a location behind him. No multiple sniper teams, no coordinated fire.

So who was Witt or "umbrella man" coordinating? Where did this supposed triangulated fire come from? Where did Witt/UM get his orders? Where is the evidence he was a "cog" in this conspiracy machine? Because he flapped an umbrella? And because his account of what he did and saw - as with many witnesses in Dealey Plaza - is not corroborated by films and photos? Many witnesses gave accounts of what they remembered seeing or doing that are wrong. Our memories are not little cameras that accurately record everything.

This is typical conspiracy thinking. Conspiracy first and then search for evidence, real or imagined, of the conspiracy. A guy waving an umbrella is not some guy doing goofy things; no it's a signal.

There is also no apparent purpose or need for any such person even in a scenario where there were multiple shooters.  The motorcade was clearly visible to any sniper in Dealey Plaza.  They wouldn't need someone to wave around an umbrella (drawing such attention that we are still discussing it six decades later) at the last moment.  That is completely absurd.  Anyone who believes this action was somehow related to a conspiracy is beyond reason.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2022, 03:32:24 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2022, 05:40:01 PM »
There is also no apparent purpose or need for any such person even in a scenario where there were multiple shooters.  The motorcade was clearly visible to any sniper in Dealey Plaza.  They wouldn't need someone to wave around an umbrella (drawing such attention that we are still discussing it six decades later) at the last moment.  That is completely absurd.  Anyone who believes this action was somehow related to a conspiracy is beyond reason.
What's the evidence again for these multiple sniper teams?

So the idea - again - is that these powerful groups secretly (somehow; nobody said no?) conspired to shoot JFK in broad daylight in the middle of a crowded street/location with many people carrying cameras and recording the event. And the followup cars in the motorcade had numerous reporters - several with cameras also recording the conspiracy. These reporters and spectators were all over the scene of the crime. Filming things, watching things. Things such as multiple sniper teams roaming about the Plaza (?).

Is this how you pull off the crime of the American century? Really? Like this? Do you want to get caught? Make it as complex as possible?

Vincent Salandria and Jim Garrison argued that this overt plan was done on purpose: it was sending a message to the public that "we" are in charge here and we'll do what we damned want to do. So the absurdity of killing JFK this way - and risking exposure - is really evidence not that it wasn't done but evidence that it was done.

Nuts, just nuts.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2022, 05:40:01 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2022, 07:23:10 PM »
What's the evidence again for these multiple sniper teams?

So the idea - again - is that these powerful groups secretly (somehow; nobody said no?) conspired to shoot JFK in broad daylight in the middle of a crowded street/location with many people carrying cameras and recording the event. And the followup cars in the motorcade had numerous reporters - several with cameras also recording the conspiracy. These reporters and spectators were all over the scene of the crime. Filming things, watching things. Things such as multiple sniper teams roaming about the Plaza (?).

Is this how you pull off the crime of the American century? Really? Like this? Do you want to get caught? Make it as complex as possible?

Vincent Salandria and Jim Garrison argued that this overt plan was done on purpose: it was sending a message to the public that "we" are in charge here and we'll do what we damned want to do. So the absurdity of killing JFK this way - and risking exposure - is really evidence not that it wasn't done but evidence that it was done.

Nuts, just nuts.

There is el zippo evidence of multiple shooters or any shooter other than Oswald.  But even if there was a Wild West shootout going on in Dealey Plaza, there was no need for some guy to wave an umbrella around.  It is just an oddity of life that at the particular historic moment one guy happened to be there with his umbrella to protest.  It does not have greater significance for that reason alone as CTers suggest.  If JFK wasn't assassinated at the moment, no one would have ever known about it.   Random events happen all the time in life, and no one takes much notice.  If someone examined every single detail that occurs on any given day with pedantic enthusiasm, you would find many unlikely things occur in the ordinary course of events.  That doesn't mean there is some guiding hand behind it.  Just the opposite.

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2022, 07:23:10 PM »

Online Paul J Cummings

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Re: Umbrella Man: Suspicious
« Reply #119 on: August 04, 2022, 10:26:30 PM »
There is el zippo evidence of multiple shooters or any shooter other than Oswald.  But even if there was a Wild West shootout going on in Dealey Plaza, there was no need for some guy to wave an umbrella around.  It is just an oddity of life that at the particular historic moment one guy happened to be there with his umbrella to protest.  It does not have greater significance for that reason alone as CTers suggest.  If JFK wasn't assassinated at the moment, no one would have ever known about it.   Random events happen all the time in life, and no one takes much notice.  If someone examined every single detail that occurs on any given day with pedantic enthusiasm, you would find many unlikely things occur in the ordinary course of events.  That doesn't mean there is some guiding hand behind it.  Just the opposite.

Yeah all those people running to or heading for the grassy knoll were just in big rush to get out of the parking lot and beat the traffic.

 

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