George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« on: July 24, 2022, 03:47:49 PM »
During Derek Chauvin's trial, the defense finally got the medical examiner to obliquely admit that if George Floyd had been of average health and had not taken nearly 4 times the lethal dosage of fentanyl, he would not have died with a 180-pound man applying about 91 pounds of pressure on his neck (actually, upper back), even for 9 minutes.

We cannot judge George Floyd's death merely by the Darnella Frazier video, because that video does not show the events that led to Floyd's being pinned on the ground. Using only Frazier's video would be like exonerating the LAPD officers who savagely beat Rodney King by only using the two very brief segments of the King video that seem to show King offering mild resistance. This, of course, would be grossly misleading and would not show the LAPD officers' brutality.

Here are some key facts that we must keep in mind about George Floyd's death:

* Floyd set the whole tragedy in motion when he used counterfeit currency to buy a pack of cigarettes from the Cup Foods store. Counterfeiting is quite a bit more serious than petty theft. If he had simply stolen the cigarettes, the police may well have just made him return the cigarettes and dropped the matter.

* Floyd had two chances--not one, but two chances--to avoid having the police called in the first place. Cup Foods employees twice asked him to please just return the cigarettes or pay for them. Floyd refused both times. After he refused the second time, one of the employees called the police.

* Floyd began disobeying police instructions before he even got out of the car in which he was sitting when the police arrived. This can be seen on the police bodycam footage.

* Floyd had numerous chances to avoid being pinned by simply getting into the police car as the police directed him to do. If Floyd had simply gotten into the car, he would not have been pinned. The police tried over and over again to persuade Floyd to get into the car. Chauvin even offered to turn on the A/C and sit next to Floyd in the back seat. This, too, can be seen on the police bodycam footage.

* Floyd began claiming he could not breathe before he powerfully resisted being placed in the police car, which is why the officers did not believe him when he resumed claiming he could not breathe after he was pinned on the ground. This, too, can be seen on the police bodycam footage.

* By law and police policy, Chauvin had every right to keep Floyd pinned until the EMS personnel arrived. He did not know that Floyd had taken nearly 4 times the lethal dosage of fentanyl. He did not know that Floyd had a serious heart condition. And he did not know that Floyd suffered from hypertension. All he knew was that Floyd had so powerfully resisted arrest that it took three officers to get him into the police car (and then he pushed himself backward out of the other side of the car).

* It bears noting that Floyd was 6í4Ē and weighed 223 pounds, whereas Chauvin was only 5í9Ē and weighed 140 pounds. Thus, Chauvin was 7 inches shorter and 83 pounds lighter than Floyd.

* The medical examiner admitted that there was absolutely no evidence of violent asphyxiation. Absolutely none. There was no petechial hemorrhaging, no bruising to the neck on the skin, no bruising on the upper back on the skin, no bruising under the skin, and no bruising of the subcutaneous muscles of the neck and upper back. The medical examiner admitted that he would expect to see those things if Floyd had died of violent asphyxiation.

* The best video angle shows that Chauvin's knee was not on Floyd's neck but was on his upper back just below the neck, just as Chauvin had been trained to do. Even the very anti-Chauvin Minneapolis police chief grudgingly admitted this fact under cross examination.

* The medical examiner admitted that if Floyd had died in his apartment with 11 ng/ml of fentanyl in his blood, his death would have been ruled an overdose. The lethal dosage of fentanyl starts at 2-3 ng/ml.

* A known, undisputed side effect of a normal dosage of fentanyl is slowed or stopped breathing. A normal dosage of fentanyl is about 50 to 100 mcg/ml. Floyd had 11 ng/ml in his blood. 1 ng equals 1,000 mcg.

* The prosecution did all they could to ignore the fact that there was a crucial 8-minute delay in getting air into Floyd's lungs after the EMS personnel arrived. Even one of the prosecution's medical experts admitted this delay was "crucial." Chauvin had nothing to do with this delay. The delay occurred because the EMS personnel concluded that the crowd's hostility made the situation unsafe for them to begin reviving Floyd on the scene.

George Floyd caused his own death by his refusal to return the cigarettes, by resisting arrest, by refusing to get into the police car, and by taking nearly 4 times the lethal dosage of fentanyl. Derek Chauvin's entirely justified pinning of Floyd onto the ground was, at most, a secondary contributing factor, and it was a factor only because Floyd had serious heart problems and hypertension and because Floyd had taken such a massive amount of a drug with a known side effect of slowing or stopping breathing even at the normal dosage. If Floyd had been of just average health, he would have easily "survived" having a 180-pound man put his knee on his upper back (or even his neck) for 9 minutes.

Here's the police bodycam footage:

« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 08:18:57 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« on: July 24, 2022, 03:47:49 PM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2022, 10:15:38 PM »

. . .
* Floyd set the whole tragedy in motion when he used counterfeit currency to buy a pack of cigarettes from the Cup Foods store. Counterfeiting is quite a bit more serious than petty theft. If he had simply stolen the cigarettes, the police may well have just made him return the cigarettes and dropped the matter.
. . .

There is much I disagree with from your statements, but letís just deal with this one statement.

Question:

What counterfeit expert examined the bill in question found that it actually was a counterfeit bill?


Iíve asked this question a few times and you always dodge this question.

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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2022, 10:15:38 PM »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2022, 02:20:47 AM »
There is much I disagree with from your statements, but letís just deal with this one statement.

Umm, most of my statements are based on the police bodycam footage and can be confirmed by anyone with decent eyesight by watching the footage. Those statements that are not based on the bodycam footage are matters of record--the normal dosage of fentanyl, the lethal dosage of fentanyl, the fact that fentanyl has a known side effect of slowing or stopping breathing, the medical examiner's admissions, the police chief's admission about the placement of Chauvin's knee under cross examination, Floyd's huge height and weight advantage over Chauvin and the other officers, and the fact that the medical examined stated that if Floyd had died in his apartment with that much fentanyl in his blood his death would have been ruled an overdose.

Question:

What counterfeit expert examined the bill in question found that it actually was a counterfeit bill?


Iíve asked this question a few times and you always dodge this question.

Sorry, but after my previous experiences with you, I usually don't bother reading your replies because they are usually just so much dishonest garbage. Believe me, I have not been "dodging" your question.

As for your "question," the two Cup Foods employees who confronted Floyd about the $20 bill believed it was counterfeit. After they failed to get Floyd to return the cigarettes or pay for them with real money, they called the police. After examining the $20 bill, the police concluded it appeared to be counterfeit, and that's why they arrested Floyd on the charge of forgery, which you can see and hear on the bodycam footage.

Floyd himself said "I didn't know" when he was told why he was being arrested, implying that he didn't know that the $20 bill was fake. He also kept saying "I can't go back," apparently referring to going back to prison.

No, no counterfeit expert had examined the bill yet. That was one reason that the officers wanted to take Floyd down to the station. They wanted to hear Floyd's explanation for how he came into possession of the $20 bill, and of course they would have had a forensic document expert examine the bill to confirm that it was fake. The prosecution never denied at Chauvin's trial that the $20 was fake.

 




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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2022, 02:20:47 AM »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2022, 10:32:36 PM »
When I first saw the Darnella Frazier video, I was so enraged that I thought to myself that this was one time I would be okay with skipping a trial and going straight to sentencing, and that they should take Derek Chauvin out behind the courthouse and hang him. But my view of Floydís death began to take a 180 when I watched the opening arguments of Chauvinís trial and saw the police bodycam footage of the confrontation.

This is one issue where many people, especially most liberals, find it hard to be objective. They use emotion instead of logic. Theyíre so convinced that Chauvin murdered Floyd that they are enraged by any argument in Chauvinís behalf.

Regarding Floydís claim that he didnít want to get into the police car because he was claustrophobic, that lie further destroyed his credibility because when the police arrived Floyd was sitting in the front seat of a car that was about the same size as the police car. He didnít seem to have any problem with claustrophobia then. So naturally the police ignored his claim of claustrophobia.

When you look at all the evidence objectively, it becomes obvious, brazenly obvious, that Floydís death was a tragic accident brought on by Floydís own conduct. Floyd could have avoided having the police called in the first place if he had just returned the cigarettes. He could have avoided being pinned if he had just gotten into the police car. If he hadnít put up such a fierce, powerful struggle when the officers tried to put him in the car, the officers might have believed him when he resumed claiming he could not breathe. And if he had told the truth when the officers asked him if he was high on drugs, the officers may have used a different response protocol that did not include pinning.

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Re: George Floyd Caused His Own Death, Not Derek Chauvin
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2022, 10:32:36 PM »

 

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