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Author Topic: The Position of the Bolt on the MC  (Read 32886 times)

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #168 on: July 27, 2022, 05:16:52 PM »
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This isn't a picture of the clip all the way down and latched, .... or if the clip is down and latched then the clip is only about half full.....
The dent was not necessarily caused by an impact.... LOOK at the cutaway and notice that the bottom of the bottom cartridge is in contact with the elevator..... A spent shell in the bottom position could be easily dented by the elevator. when the clip is pushed down into the magazine

I'm not talking about the dent, I'm talking about the abrasion scratches on the spent cartridge that we see in the photo I posted of the Oswald pieces of evidence.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #168 on: July 27, 2022, 05:16:52 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #169 on: July 27, 2022, 05:22:08 PM »
You are 100%wrong about this. The Alyea film is actual film footage of the moments after the initial discovery of the rifle. According to Tom Alyea:

"Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure next to the rifle."


You "doubt that Captain fritz stood in that "hole" in the boxes before Lt Day picked up the rifle"?
So, in your imagination, Alyea filmed Day picking up the rifle, both Day and Fritz examining the rifle, Day dusting the rifle for fingerprints AFTER WHICH, Alyea filmed Fritz stepping into the "enclosure" which shows the rifle back on the floor in the upright position?
Have a think about that Walt.

"...everybody who was there and testified swore that no boxes were moved prior to Lt Day picking up the rifle."

You have made this up.

The Alyea footage is the best evidence we have regarding the initial position of the rifle between the boxes at the time of it's discovery. Dismissing it because you have a different theory isn't very credible. The rifle was discovered in an upright position, this was filmed by Tom Alyea, photographed by Day and Studebaker and testified to by Day, Craig and others.

Th

So, in your imagination, Alyea filmed Day picking up the rifle, both Day and Fritz examining the rifle, Day dusting the rifle for fingerprints AFTER WHICH, Alyea filmed Fritz stepping into the "enclosure" which shows the rifle back on the floor in the upright position?

Dan, if you look at the official DPD in situ photo....and study the lighting it appears that the photo was taken at night with no bright sunlight shining through the window that was only a couple of feet away.  I believe the original photo revealed the rifle laying on the floor on it's side, and the cops realized that Lee couldn't possibly have dashed by and placed that rifle on the floor and then stacked the boxes around and over it.  They came to this realization after they learned that officer Baker had talked to Lee who was drinking a coke, in the 2nd floor lunchroom less than two minutes after the shots were fired.   Thus they were forced to create a photo of the rifle in a position that lent credence to their tale.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #170 on: July 27, 2022, 05:58:05 PM »
You are 100%wrong about this. The Alyea film is actual film footage of the moments after the initial discovery of the rifle. According to Tom Alyea:

"Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure next to the rifle."


You "doubt that Captain fritz stood in that "hole" in the boxes before Lt Day picked up the rifle"?
So, in your imagination, Alyea filmed Day picking up the rifle, both Day and Fritz examining the rifle, Day dusting the rifle for fingerprints AFTER WHICH, Alyea filmed Fritz stepping into the "enclosure" which shows the rifle back on the floor in the upright position?
Have a think about that Walt.

"...everybody who was there and testified swore that no boxes were moved prior to Lt Day picking up the rifle."

You have made this up.

The Alyea footage is the best evidence we have regarding the initial position of the rifle between the boxes at the time of it's discovery. Dismissing it because you have a different theory isn't very credible. The rifle was discovered in an upright position, this was filmed by Tom Alyea, photographed by Day and Studebaker and testified to by Day, Craig and others.

Th

Does Roger Craig's description of the site match the photo of Fritz standing in the hole?

Here's Roger Craig's description of the rifle, and the site where it was hidden....

the north stack of boxes to see the rifle. It was pushed kinda under-uh-or
up tight against ‘em-you know, where it would be hard to see. bud, of course,
both ends of the rows were closed off where you couldn’t see through ‘em. You
had to get up and look in ‘em.
Mr. BELIN. You are gesturing with your hand there-woultl you say that
the boxes, then, as you gestured, were in the shape of what I would call a
rectangular “O”, so to speak?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes, yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BEWN. And about how high were the walls of this enclosure, so to speak?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, it-it was different heights. Sow. the part where I looked
in particularly was about-uh-oh, was about s-foot.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And you gestured there in such a way that you had to lean over and look
straight down? Would that be a fair statemeut of your gestures?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; yes. You had to lean over the boses and look down.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #170 on: July 27, 2022, 05:58:05 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #171 on: July 27, 2022, 10:19:16 PM »
I'm not talking about the dent, I'm talking about the abrasion scratches on the spent cartridge that we see in the photo I posted of the Oswald pieces of evidence.

My eyes aren't good enough to see any "abrasion scratches" on the shells.....Mr Hackerott , please come in here.....

Online James Hackerott

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #172 on: July 27, 2022, 11:04:58 PM »
My eyes aren't good enough to see any "abrasion scratches" on the shells.....Mr Hackerott , please come in here.....
I assume these markings are the questioned "abrasion scratches".


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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #172 on: July 27, 2022, 11:04:58 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #173 on: July 28, 2022, 01:52:27 AM »
Mr O'meara....I certainly agree that the Alyea footage is the best evidence we have...But the photos of the rifle in situ and Fritz standing in the hole ae NOT from the Alyea film.

This is unbelievable. The picture James posted, of Fritz standing in the hole, is taken from the Alyea footage I posted. See below:


Please just watch this compilation which starts off with Fritz standing in the hole. It is footage of the rifle in an upright position before being removed by Day. And that should be the end of that particular discussion. Obviously the pics taken by Day and Studebaker of the rifle position are not part of the Alyea footage, but they do show the rifle in exactly the same position Alyea filmed it in.

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There are so many aspects to be debated that I hate to dive into this quagmire.   But let's start with the feasibility of jamming that carcano between boxes as it is seen in the official DPD in situ photo....

Do you believe that the skinny ( 131 lbs) Lee Oswald could grab that 9 pond rifle by the butt end of the stock and hold the rifle horizontal as he jammed the rifle between the boxes?   

Next Question... Do you believe that it's possible to insert that 40 inch long rifle into the east west space between the boxes ?
That distance as seen in the photo of Fritz standing in the hole appears to be about 24 inches.....How could Lee Oswald have held that 40 inch long rifle by the butt and inserted it into an space that is about 2 feet .??

None of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand so nobody needs to be diving into this quagmire.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #174 on: July 28, 2022, 02:05:36 AM »
This is an animated GIF (in very slow motion) of frames from The Lost JFK Tapes showing Day holding the rifle up for Fritz immediately after lifting it from the floor. It appears to me, based on the testimony of both Day and Fritz that Fritz is either ejecting the cartridge or is almost to the point of ejecting it.



Near the end, it appears that both Day and Fritz are looking down towards the floor. Do you believe that they might be looking at the ejected cartridge?



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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #174 on: July 28, 2022, 02:05:36 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #175 on: July 28, 2022, 02:32:27 AM »
This is unbelievable. The picture James posted, of Fritz standing in the hole, is taken from the Alyea footage I posted. See below:


Please just watch this compilation which starts off with Fritz standing in the hole. It is footage of the rifle in an upright position before being removed by Day. And that should be the end of that particular discussion. Obviously the pics taken by Day and Studebaker of the rifle position are not part of the Alyea footage, but they do show the rifle in exactly the same position Alyea filmed it in.

None of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand so nobody needs to be diving into this quagmire.

I'm not convinced that the film we see was all exposed that afternoon....I'll confess that I'm confused about the footage.... It doesn't make sense to me....  I believe that the DPD were a big part of the cover up and the framing and murder of Lee Oswald, so I don't trust anything that they present.