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Author Topic: The Position of the Bolt on the MC  (Read 32882 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #144 on: July 26, 2022, 03:25:14 PM »
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...or (as I said earlier) the bolt handle was knocked up when the rifle was dropped/thrust between the heavy boxes. I'm not saying that Oswald threw it down there (he was in the Domino room at the time).

If you had a carcano , I'm sure that you'd drop the idea that the bolt was closed and latched but was "knocked up" when the rifle was thrust between the boxes..... the main reason that didn't happen is because the rifle wasn't thrust between any boxes.

It was found lying on it's side on the floor .....It was not jammed between boxes.  I doubt that the yokel who hid the rifle "dropped it" on the floor....He placed the rifle there and stacked the boxes of books around and over it.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #144 on: July 26, 2022, 03:25:14 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #145 on: July 26, 2022, 03:33:46 PM »
Not necessarily. Clips can get slightly caught and stay in the rifle. Go to 3:10 here:


If you had a carcano to experiment with, I'm sure that you'd change your mind about the clip being stuck in the magazine after the last round was stripped from the clip.  The steel clips do occasionally hang up in the magazine but the rifle was designed to use the brass clip and the brass clips do not stick in the magazine.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #146 on: July 26, 2022, 03:45:00 PM »

Well done! The best image yet of the way it was found!

Study the movements of Fritz and Day.....  I believe Day arrived at the scene in the NW corner of the room before Fritz...and he ordered everybody away from the scene ( some of the cops had started to move the boxes that were around and over the rifle.)

I don't believe that Fritz was there until after Day and Studebaker had started taking photos of the scene. 

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #146 on: July 26, 2022, 03:45:00 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #147 on: July 26, 2022, 04:01:01 PM »

Well done! The best image yet of the way it was found!

Here's Roger Craig's description of the rifle, and the site where it was hidden....

the north stack of boxes to see the rifle. It was pushed kinda under-uh-or
up tight against ‘em-you know, where it would be hard to see. bud, of course,
both ends of the rows were closed off where you couldn’t see through ‘em. You
had to get up and look in ‘em.
Mr. BELIN. You are gesturing with your hand there-woultl you say that
the boxes, then, as you gestured, were in the shape of what I would call a
rectangular “O”, so to speak?

Mr. CRAIG. Yes, yes, uh-huh.

Mr. BEWN. And about how high were the walls of this enclosure, so to speak?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, it-it was different heights. Sow. the part where I looked
in particularly was about-uh-oh, was about s-foot.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And you gestured there in such a way that you had to lean over and look
straight down? Would that be a fair statemeut of your gestures?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; yes. You had to lean over the boses and look down.
Mr. BELIN. All right.


Here's what Seymour Weitzman said....
ear section of the building, I would say the northwest corner, I was on the
floor looking under the flat
at the same time he was looking on the top side and
we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said, “There it is” and he
started hollering, “We got it.” It was covered with boxes. It was well protected as far as the naked eye because I would venture to say eight or nine of
us stumbled over that gun a couple times before we thoroughly searched the
building.

Mr. BALL. Did you touch it?
Mr. WEITZMAN. NO, sir; we made a man-tight barricade until the crime lab
came up and removed the gun itself.
Mr. BALL. The crime lab from the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WEITZMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Lieutenant Day and Captain Fritz?
Mr. WEITZbfAN. I'm not sure what the lieutenant’s name was, but I remember
Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL. Did YOU see Captain Fritz remove an

Here's Boone
Mr. BOONE. Well, I proceeded to the east end of the building, I guess, and
started working our way across the building to the west wall, looking in, under,
and around all the boxes and pallets, and what-have-you that were on the floor.
Looking for the weapon. And as I got to the west wall, there were a row of
windows there, and a slight space between some boxes and the wall. I squeezed
through them.
When I did-1 had my light in my hand. I was slinging it around on the
floor, and I caught a glimpse of the rifle, stuffed down between two rows of
boxes with another box or so pulled over the top of it. And I hollered that the
rifle was here.
Mr. BALL. What happened then?
Mr. BOONE. Some of the other oilicers came over to look at it. I told them
to stand back, not to get around close, they might want to take prints of some
of the boxes, and not touch the rifle. And at that time Captain Fritz and an
ID man came over. I believe the ID man’s name was Lieutenant Day-I am
not sure. They came over and the weapon was photographed as it lay. And
at that time Captain Fritz picked it up by the strap, and it was removed from
the place where it was.
Mr. BALL. You saw them take the photograph?
Mr. BOONE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Were you alone at that time?
Mr. Booxz. There was an Otlicer Weitzman. I believe. He is a deputy
constable.
Mr. BALL. Where was the rifle located on the floor, general location?
Mr. Boox~. Well, it was almost-the stairwell is in the corner of the building,
something like this, and there is a wall coming up here, making one side of the
stairwell with the building acting as the other two sides. And from that,
it was almost directly in front or about 3 feet south, I guess, it would be, from
that partition wall that made up the stairwell.
Mr. BALL. The rifle was about 3 feet from the
Mr. BOONE. Yes, sir; behind a row of boxes. There was a row of boxes that
came across there. Then the rifle was behind that first row of boxes.
Mr. BALL. I show you 514. Is that the way it looked when you saw it?
Mr. BOONE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Is that the way it was when the picture was taken?
Mr. BOONE. Yes; I believe so.
Mr. BALL. This shows the rifle as you saw it, does it?
Mr. BOONE. That is right. Then you could kneel down over here and see
that it had a scope, a telescopic sight on it, by looking down underneath the
boxes;
Mr. BALL. Now, I show you 515. Does that look anything like the area
where you found the rifle?
Mr. BOONE. Yes; it did.
Mr. BALL. Will you put that down on the table so that everyone can see
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 05:18:14 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #148 on: July 26, 2022, 06:56:58 PM »
If you had a carcano to experiment with, I'm sure that you'd change your mind about the clip being stuck in the magazine after the last round was stripped from the clip.  The steel clips do occasionally hang up in the magazine but the rifle was designed to use the brass clip and the brass clips do not stick in the magazine.

Yes but it does look like the rifle found didn't let go of clips too easily!


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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #148 on: July 26, 2022, 06:56:58 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #149 on: July 26, 2022, 07:27:10 PM »
Yes but it does look like the rifle found didn't let go of clips too easily!



I've never said that there was no clip in the rifle when it was picked up from the floor and when Day carried it from the building....
What I said was the clip would have fell out IF that rifle had been fired behind that sixth floor window.   I've said that the Yokel who dropped the live round into the chamber also placed that brass clip in the magazine.....  He clearly didn't understand that the clip falls out when the last round is stripped from the clip....and therefore it should have been on the floor beneath the window.
There's not an iota of doubt in my mind that the clip was in the rifle's magazine when Lt Day was dusting it for prints.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 07:30:40 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #150 on: July 26, 2022, 07:31:44 PM »
Cool.

Look at this photo of the Ozwald incriminating evidence. The spent cartridge on the left seems to have abrasions - caused by the elevator?




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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #150 on: July 26, 2022, 07:31:44 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #151 on: July 26, 2022, 08:11:01 PM »
Cool.

Look at this photo of the Ozwald incriminating evidence. The spent cartridge on the left seems to have abrasions - caused by the elevator?





If you look at the cutaway animation, it appears that the elevator contacts the cartridge in a location that is closer to the center of the cartridge.