The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Charles Collins]

C'mon Charles .....I'm sure that you know that the images ( page 4) were taken as Lt Day picked the rifle up from the floor and started to hand it to Fritz ...... This was BEFORE the rifle was handled by Fritz.

If I remember correctly, Day takes the rifle back from Fritz while Fritz has his hanky in hand. And the rifle is positioned with the muzzle pointing down. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, I believe that your theory doesn’t seem to “hold water”.

[Walt Cakebread]

If I remember correctly, Day takes the rifle back from Fritz while Fritz has his hanky in hand. And the rifle is positioned with the muzzle pointing down. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, I believe that your theory doesn’t seem to “hold water”.

 You need to show Fritz handing the rifle back to Day.....   I don't believe that happened.

[Charles Collins]

You need to show Fritz handing the rifle back to Day.....   I don't believe that happened.

Post #17 of this thread includes a compilation video provided by Dan. I was remembering seeing what Dan describes below and I must have mistaken that for Day taking the rifle back from him. My bad…

Day turns to Fritz who grabs the strap. Fritz then produces a handkerchief and appears to grab the bolt handle (or around that area) and Day immediately pulls the rifle away from him. After this Day and Fritz examine the rifle together.

However, the end of Dan’s compilation shows Day dusting the rifle for prints. I assume that happened after Day and Fritz examined the rifle together. Therefore Fritz must have handed the rifle back to Day at some point.

[Walt Cakebread]

Post #17 of this thread includes a compilation video provided by Dan. I was remembering seeing what Dan describes below and I must have mistaken that for Day taking the rifle back from him. My bad…

Day turns to Fritz who grabs the strap. Fritz then produces a handkerchief and appears to grab the bolt handle (or around that area) and Day immediately pulls the rifle away from him. After this Day and Fritz examine the rifle together.

However, the end of Dan’s compilation shows Day dusting the rifle for prints. I assume that happened after Day and Fritz examined the rifle together. Therefore Fritz must have handed the rifle back to Day at some point.

Yes, you're right....Fritz had to have let Day take possession of the rifle because Alyea filmed Day dusting the rifle with finger print powder behind the brightly lit west window.  I'm not sure that Day ever relinquished total possession to Fritz... There may be some law that would have been broken if Day had taken his hand off the rifle...

Now let's Look at the practical aspect of this.....  If Lee Oswald had been the shooter, what would his actions have been after he had fired three shots?   In my opinion he would definitely ( by reflex action) have loaded that fourth round, and it would have been in the chamber with the bolt closed and latched.   And therefore the rifle would not have been found with the bolt unlatched and about 1/4 inch short of being closed and latched.  It just doesn't make sense for an assassin to stop loading  his rifle in mid stroke.

I firmly believe that the rifle was simply a throw down gun and it was never fired that day....

[Walt Cakebread]

Post #17 of this thread includes a compilation video provided by Dan. I was remembering seeing what Dan describes below and I must have mistaken that for Day taking the rifle back from him. My bad…

Day turns to Fritz who grabs the strap. Fritz then produces a handkerchief and appears to grab the bolt handle (or around that area) and Day immediately pulls the rifle away from him. After this Day and Fritz examine the rifle together.

However, the end of Dan’s compilation shows Day dusting the rifle for prints. I assume that happened after Day and Fritz examined the rifle together. Therefore Fritz must have handed the rifle back to Day at some point.

the end of Dan’s compilation shows Day dusting the rifle for prints.

Yes, Alyea did film detective Day dusting the rifle for prints ....and Alyea's camera caught the brass clip in the magazine on film.

The fact that the clip was still in the rifle raises more questions.   We know that the official tale says that the live round was the last round in the clip and it was in the chamber.... And since that clip drops out of the magazine when the last round is stripped from the clip by the forward stroke of the bolt .....then that clip should have been on the floor in the "Sniper's Nest".

SO WHY was it in the magazine when Day was dusting the rifle ??     

[Charles Collins]

Yes, you're right....Fritz had to have let Day take possession of the rifle because Alyea filmed Day dusting the rifle with finger print powder behind the brightly lit west window.  I'm not sure that Day ever relinquished total possession to Fritz... There may be some law that would have been broken if Day had taken his hand off the rifle...

Now let's Look at the practical aspect of this.....  If Lee Oswald had been the shooter, what would his actions have been after he had fired three shots?   In my opinion he would definitely ( by reflex action) have loaded that fourth round, and it would have been in the chamber with the bolt closed and latched.   And therefore the rifle would not have been found with the bolt unlatched and about 1/4 inch short of being closed and latched.  It just doesn't make sense for an assassin to stop loading  his rifle in mid stroke.

I firmly believe that the rifle was simply a throw down gun and it was never fired that day....

I think that the sight of JFK's head exploding could have been enough of a shock (even to LHO) to make him just freeze in the middle of loading the next round. But, of course, anything we come up with is only conjecture.

Another, totally different, possibility is that LHO actually did complete the loading process of the next round and set the rifle down between the boxes. The first photos taken by the DPD reportedly show the rifle before anyone touched it. And the rifle can be seen in that photo upright. The Alyea film appears to show Day lifting the rifle from a laying down position. So it is conceivable that before Day lifted the rifle from the floor that either he or Fritz could have lifted the bolt handle into the up position by reaching between the boxes. I am not saying that that is what happened. Only that I think it is a possibility.

[Charles Collins]

the end of Dan’s compilation shows Day dusting the rifle for prints.

Yes, Alyea did film detective Day dusting the rifle for prints ....and Alyea caught the brass clip in the magazine on film.

The fact that the clip was still in the rifle raises more questions.   We know that the official tale says that the live round was the last round in the clip and it was in the chamber.... And since that clip drops out of the magazine when the last round is stripped from the clip by the forward stroke of the bolt .....then that clip should have been on the floor in the "Sniper's Nest".

SO WHY was it in the magazine when Day was dusting the rifle ??     

It could possibly be that a less than clean and lubricated magazine and friction held it in place. After all, if I understand it correctly, gravity is the only force that causes it to fall out of the bottom of the magazine. And the clip appears to be relatively lightweight. Therefore the force of gravity wouldn't be very powerful.

[James Hackerott]

For what it is worth….

From the TV show Caught on Film (COF) – “Infamous Guns” episode.
Tom Alyea was the guest for this first of three segments of the hour long show.
 
After finding the hidden rifle:

Narrator
10 minutes after finding the shells officers spot a rifle hidden beneath some shipping boxes.

Alyea
This is the first picture of the assassin’s rifle. At this time we did not know it was an assassin. (Rifle on floor with Capt. Fritz standing next to the rifle).

Narrator
Capt. Fritz decides to allow the crime scene investigation team to examine the rifle before removing it from its hiding place. While they are waiting for the crime scene team to examine the rifle the investigators inside learned that President Kennedy has in fact been killed.

Alyea
We heard for the first time that the President is dead. We were standing there looking at the weapon that killed the President of the United States and that’s all we could see of it (rifle).

Narrator
After determining there were no prints on any of the exposed surfaces Crime Scene Investigator J.C. Day moves the rifle from it’s hiding place and hands it to Capt. Fritz.