The Position of the Bolt on the MC

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Online Dan O'meara

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The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« on: July 20, 2022, 01:21:39 PM »
This one's for Walt really, but anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles might be able to help me out (as I have literally zero practical knowledge of firearms).

In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?

« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 01:22:08 PM by Dan O'meara »

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The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« on: July 20, 2022, 01:21:39 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2022, 04:37:47 PM »
It appears that the bolt is 'thrown up' but not pulled back or thrown forward.
[I'm a lever action guy myself]

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2022, 04:37:47 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2022, 06:19:07 PM »
This one's for Walt really, but anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles might be able to help me out (as I have literally zero practical knowledge of firearms).

In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?



In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?



What does the position of this bolt mean?

Thanks for posting the photo ( frame from Tom Alyea's film) ....

Though there are few who will comprehend the information provided by the position of that bolt handle, I hope that I can shed a little light on the matter.

Referring to the picture..... The bolt handle clearly shows that the rifle definitely is NOT "ready to fire" as many LNer's think.  They like to believe that the carcano was Lee Oswald's and he shot JFK with it and then discarded it with a live round in the chamber and ready to fire.   If that were true the rifle could have been fired and possibly injured or killed an innocent investigator. This is just another way of making their villain, Lee Harvey Osssssswald BOOOOOO HISSSS appear to be a irresponsible ner-do-well.

What does the position of this bolt mean?

Answer:    In a "nut shell" the position of the bolt handle in the photo clearly says that the Warren Commission were liars.
 
I can only speculate about the reason the bolt isn't closed and latched.....BUT Id wager the farm that the live round was in the chamber and that prevented the bolt from being closed and latched.   (We have photos and testimony that the live round DROPPED OUT onto the floor at Captain Fritz's feet.)   This means that the live round was NOT served up into the face of the bolt by the action of the cartridge elevator, but the live cartridge was in fact simply dropped into the chamber.....

The carcano cannot be loaded by simply dropping a cartridge into the chamber and then closing the bolt ( many bolt action rifles CAN be loaded in this manner but NOT THE CARCANO. )  The live round in the chamber blocks the bolt because the extractor is blocked from camming up and over the cartridge lip. 

I doubt that many readers will understand the above....But I'm willing to wager a gold coin that nobody can close and latch the bolt  on the carcano with a cartridge in the chamber.    Anybody who tries will find that the bolt handle stops just as it's seen in the Tom Alyea film.

I hope this helps ......and it becomes clear that the live round that fell out on the floor was not fed into the chamber by the normal action of ejecting a spent shell and loading a live one.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 04:51:25 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2022, 06:19:07 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2022, 07:08:48 PM »
This one's for Walt really, but anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles might be able to help me out (as I have literally zero practical knowledge of firearms).

In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?



This one's for Walt really, but anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles might be able to help me

Hi Dan, Please don't rely on "anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles" in an effort to understand what the position of that bolt handle means.   A person needs to be well acquainted with the Mannlicher Carcano to understand how critical the position of the bolt handle is in the photo. ( critical to understand that the entire tale invented by the authorities is BS)   I've debated several people who have a good knowledge of bolt action rifles in general, and they argue that the carcano can be loaded as a single shot rifle by simply dropping a live round into the chamber and then closing the bolt and firing the rifle.  The Carcano is not designed to be loaded as a single shot rifle and a single live cartridge cannot be loaded into the chamber by simply dropping the cartridge into the chamber.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2022, 07:08:48 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2022, 11:50:54 PM »
It appears that the bolt is 'thrown up' but not pulled back or thrown forward.
[I'm a lever action guy myself]

It clearly shows that the bolt handle is in the exact position it would be if someone dropped a cartridge into the barrel ( firing chamber) and then attempted to latch the bolt into the ready to fire position.   

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2022, 11:50:54 PM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2022, 12:27:05 AM »
It clearly shows that the bolt handle is in the exact position it would be if someone dropped a cartridge into the barrel ( firing chamber) and then attempted to latch the bolt into the ready to fire position.
Not exactly a high-level, meticulous conspiracy thing to do.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2022, 12:27:05 AM »

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2022, 12:46:15 AM »
In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?



What does the position of this bolt mean?

Thanks for posting the photo ( frame from Tom Alyea's film) ....

Though there are few who will comprehend the information provided by the position of that bolt handle, I hope that I can shed a little light on the matter.

Referring to the picture..... The bolt handle clearly shows that the rifle definitely is NOT "ready to fire" as many LNer's think.  They like to believe that the carcano was Lee Oswald's and he shot JFK with it and then discarded it with a live round in the chamber and ready to fire.   If that were true the rifle could have been fired and possibly injured or killed an innocent investigator. This is just another way of making their villain, Lee Harvey Osssssswald BOOOOOO HISSSS appear to be a irresponsible ner-do-well.

What does the position of this bolt mean?

Answer:    In a "nut shell" the position of the bolt handle in the photo clearly says that the Warren Commission were liars.
 
I can only speculate about the reason the bolt isn't closed and latched.....BUT Id wager the farm that the live round was in the chamber and that prevented the bolt from being closed and latched.   (We have photos and testimony that the live round DROPPED OUT onto the floor at Captain Fritz's feet.)   This means that the live round was NOT served up into the face of the but by the action of the cartridge elevator, but the live cartridge was in fact simply dropped into the chamber.....

The carcano cannot be loaded by simply dropping a cartridge into the chamber and then closing the bolt ( many bolt action rifles CAN be loaded in this manner but NOT THE CARCANO. )  The live round in the chamber blocks the bolt because the extractor is blocked from camming up and over the cartridge lip. 

I doubt that many readers will understand the above....But I'm willing to wager a gold coin that nobody can close and latch the bolt  on the carcano with a cartridge in the chamber.    Anybody who tries will find that the bolt handle stops just as it's seen in the Tom Alyea film.

I hope this helps ......and it becomes clear that the live round that fell out on the floor was not fed into the chamber by the normal action of ejecting a spent shell and loading a live one.

As I state in the OP, this one was for you Walt, unfortunately I'm going to need you to really hold my hand through this one.
I've studied this section of the Alyea film in close detail and am convinced the bolt was in the same position I highlighted when it was picked off the ground (I will try to demonstrate this later - for now let's just ASSUME the bolt is in this position when it is picked up).

Questions: Is the clip still in place if the bolt is in this position?
                If the rifle was fired three times where would we expect to see the bolt?
                How can a live round be dropped in the chamber if the clip is in place?

If I'm asking silly questions, just be patient. I want to understand what's going on here as I believe it may be important.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2022, 12:46:15 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2022, 12:33:13 AM »
As I state in the OP, this one was for you Walt, unfortunately I'm going to need you to really hold my hand through this one.
I've studied this section of the Alyea film in close detail and am convinced the bolt was in the same position I highlighted when it was picked off the ground (I will try to demonstrate this later - for now let's just ASSUME the bolt is in this position when it is picked up).

Questions: Is the clip still in place if the bolt is in this position?
                If the rifle was fired three times where would we expect to see the bolt?
                How can a live round be dropped in the chamber if the clip is in place?

If I'm asking silly questions, just be patient. I want to understand what's going on here as I believe it may be important.

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As I state in the OP, this one was for you Walt, unfortunately I'm going to need you to really hold my hand through this one.
I've studied this section of the Alyea film in close detail and am convinced the bolt was in the same position I highlighted when it was picked off the ground (I will try to demonstrate this later - for now let's just ASSUME the bolt is in this position when it is picked up).


You're convinced that the bolt handle ( knob) is in the same position in the picture as it was when the carcano was picked up from the floor. .....And,  You are absolutely correct.

Questions: Is the clip still in place if the bolt is in this position?
 The short answer is....YES.    The clip has no bearing on the position of the bolt.   The clip merely holds the cartridges ( stacked  ) so the elevator can feed the top cartridge in the clip up and into the annular space on the face of the bolt.

               If the rifle was fired three times where would we expect to see the bolt?

The number of times the rifle is fired is irrelevant ....However,, If that rifle had been fired three times as the liars claimed then that should have indicated that there were four cartridges in the clip to begin the firing process.  If three had been fired  then the fourth one would have been the live round. The live round would automatically have been inserted into the face of the bolt when the spent third round was ejected and the shooter by reflex action would have closed and LATCHED  the bolt handle and the rifle would have been ready to fire that live round. ( The empty clip would normally drop out of the bottom of the magazine when the last cartridge is extracted from it by the forward motion of the bolt)    However....As you've pointed out that bolt handle is NOT down in the latched and ready to fire position.....The bolt handle is in exactly the position it would be in if an unknowing yokel attempted to put the live cartridge in the chamber by dropping it into the barrel. 

                How can a live round be dropped in the chamber if the clip is in place?

Simple as dropping an ice cube in your favorite drink.....  You pull the bolt back to the open position, and with the muzzle down toward the floor you simply drop the live round into the barrel...and let Mr gravity go to work.....

Dan ...Please don't worry about asking questions if I haven't made myself clear.....  This is a very important piece of evidence and I want  you and all readers to understand that the rifle was NOT fired that day and whoever hid it was not at all familiar with the carcano.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2022, 12:33:13 AM »

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2022, 12:40:26 AM »
This one's for Walt really, but anyone with a decent knowledge of rifles might be able to help me out (as I have literally zero practical knowledge of firearms).

In the picture below the bolt (more specifically, the part of the bolt that is gripped in order to reload) is picked out with a red arrow.

What does the position of this bolt mean (if that makes any sense)?
What would it mean if the MC was picked off the floor with the bolt in this position?


The bolt handle (this being the proper term) looks like it's been rotated up and the bolt pulled back a centimeter or two, so that the handle is partially in the slot cut through the top of the receiver bridge. This could have happened because someone fired a shot and pushed the bolt forwards to reload for the next one, but decided that one more shot wasn't needed and didn't finish closing the bolt. Or it could be that Day (or some other DPD member) rotated the handle and partially extracted the bolt in order to make the rifle safe to handle before anyone picked it up. Which would be proper procedure. I'm sure there are a few other scenarios that would explain the bolt handle's position as well. You don't have to go by Walt's flights of fancy.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2022, 12:40:26 AM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2022, 12:51:06 AM »
I found this animation quite a few years ago. I thought it might be helpful.

Here is an animated gif I created from the original MP4 file:





And here is a link to the webpage where I found it in case there is any trouble with the gif file and to give the original creator credit for this one:


https://imgur.com/gallery/30ws11v/comment/225371056?nc=1

 

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