The Position of the Bolt on the MC


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Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2022, 12:49:12 AM »
Does anyone here have an old MC or know anyone who has one? If not we could ask this guy:




One thing that that guy demonstrated quite clearly, is that if the scope appears to be significantly off target, it is very simple to just use the fixed iron sights. Even with a scope mounted in the same position as the one on rifle found on the sixth floor.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2022, 12:49:12 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2022, 12:50:02 AM »


…who in the world would want to load a single cartridge into a rifle that is designed to hold six rounds???


Perhaps someone who lost the clip but had a box of cartridges and needed to shoot before someone shot him. After all, it was designed as a military rifle…

possibly but not to likely ....The Italian military cartridges came from the  factory packed in clips .... the factory packaged the ammo in a small paper box  (3" X 2 3/4" X 1 1/2 " )  There were four clips of six rounds each ( Total 24 rounds per box )

The soldier in the field did not load any clips....He simply inserted a fresh clip of six cartridges when he had fired one clip of six rounds.....He usually was issued 4 boxes of ammo ( 96 rounds)...... 

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2022, 12:54:12 AM »

You are probably thinking about Robert Frazier. I have been reading some of his testimony recently. I didn’t see anything about the elevator scratching the last round. And I haven’t seen anything about the live round missing markings from the elevator. But I could have missed it if it shows up in sections of his testimony that I skimmed through.

It possibly was Frazier who testified about the elevator left scratch marks on the bottom cartridge.... But I simply can't remember....


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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2022, 12:54:12 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2022, 01:15:46 AM »
possibly but not to likely ....The Italian military cartridges came from the  factory packed in clips .... the factory packaged the ammo in a small paper box  (3" X 2 3/4" X 1 1/2 " )  There were four clips of six rounds each ( Total 24 rounds per box )

The soldier in the field did not load any clips....He simply inserted a fresh clip of six cartridges when he had fired one clip of six rounds.....He usually was issued 4 boxes of ammo ( 96 rounds)......


That’s not surprising to read. However, you are probably familiar with Murphy’s Law. It just seems to me that it would be prudent to design the rifle so that it is feasible to load single cartridges for contingencies. And I do believe that Robert Frazier indicated that it is feasible.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2022, 03:24:33 AM »

That’s not surprising to read. However, you are probably familiar with Murphy’s Law. It just seems to me that it would be prudent to design the rifle so that it is feasible to load single cartridges for contingencies. And I do believe that Robert Frazier indicated that it is feasible.

I do believe that Robert Frazier indicated that it is feasible.

Yes you're right, Frazier did testify that the carcano could be loaded as a seven shot rifle.....But I can point out several examples that he was in error regarding the carcano.  So I wouldn't bet the farm that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle if I were you.

Question for you...  How do you go about loading a single round and then a full six round clip so that the rifle can fire seven rounds??   You know that the cartridges MUST be fed up to the bolt from beneath the bolt ( i'm sure that you know that because you posted the cutaway illustrations that show that it is a fact. )   Ok ....So you fumble around and manage to get the loose single cartridge seated on the face of the bolt and close the bolt...Now you have a single cartridge in the chamber and ready to fire but you must open the bolt to insert the six round clip from the top....But when you open the bolt it extracts and ejects the single round ......OOOPs....That attempt just failed....  So HOW do you load seven rounds ???

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2022, 03:57:48 AM »
I do believe that Robert Frazier indicated that it is feasible.

Yes you're right, Frazier did testify that the carcano could be loaded as a seven shot rifle.....But I can point out several examples that he was in error regarding the carcano.  So I wouldn't bet the farm that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle if I were you.

Question for you...  How do you go about loading a single round and then a full six round clip so that the rifle can fire seven rounds??   You know that the cartridges MUST be fed up to the bolt from beneath the bolt ( i'm sure that you know that because you posted the cutaway illustrations that show that it is a fact. )   Ok ....So you fumble around and manage to get the loose single cartridge seated on the face of the bolt and close the bolt...Now you have a single cartridge in the chamber and ready to fire but you must open the bolt to insert the six round clip from the top....But when you open the bolt it extracts and ejects the single round ......OOOPs....That attempt just failed....  So HOW do you load seven rounds ???

'bet the farm'
_What a coincidence. I used that term not a week ago.
  I'd never seen it used here before
  My eyebrows remain raised...

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2022, 03:57:48 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2022, 12:33:31 PM »
'bet the farm'
_What a coincidence. I used that term not a week ago.
  I'd never seen it used here before
  My eyebrows remain raised...

"I'd Bet the farm"..... is a very old axiom....   Meaning: ...I'm very sure about something....

I'd bet the farm,  that there will be snow in January....

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2022, 12:41:52 PM »
I do believe that Robert Frazier indicated that it is feasible.

Yes you're right, Frazier did testify that the carcano could be loaded as a seven shot rifle.....But I can point out several examples that he was in error regarding the carcano.  So I wouldn't bet the farm that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle if I were you.

Question for you...  How do you go about loading a single round and then a full six round clip so that the rifle can fire seven rounds??   You know that the cartridges MUST be fed up to the bolt from beneath the bolt ( i'm sure that you know that because you posted the cutaway illustrations that show that it is a fact. )   Ok ....So you fumble around and manage to get the loose single cartridge seated on the face of the bolt and close the bolt...Now you have a single cartridge in the chamber and ready to fire but you must open the bolt to insert the six round clip from the top....But when you open the bolt it extracts and ejects the single round ......OOOPs....That attempt just failed....  So HOW do you load seven rounds ???



So HOW do you load seven rounds ???


Here's a screen shot from the video posted earlier in this thread. He has just loaded a full clip (six cartridges) and has not yet closed the bolt. The way that Robert Frazier described (if I remember correctly) to load the seventh cartridge, is to place a single cartridge in the receiver (on top of the other six cartridges) and then close the bolt. That is also similar to the way I remember doing it with my bolt action gun.


« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 12:43:13 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2022, 12:41:52 PM »


 

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