The Position of the Bolt on the MC

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Author Topic: The Position of the Bolt on the MC  (Read 10329 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2022, 04:15:47 PM »
For argument's sake, let' just say there was four rounds in the clip, three had been fired, why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber? Because the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

let' just say there was four rounds in the clip, three had been fired, why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber? Because the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

 the elevator never scratched the live round...  That's one reason.....If that live round had been the last round in the clip it would have been scratched every time the rifle recoiled when the first three rounds were fired....

why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber?

The way you are describing the action that live round could have been (and should have been) in the chamber WITH THE BOLT CLOSED AND LATCHED  behind it .   Thus the rifle would have been ready to fire , by simply pulling the trigger.

The action of firing the three previous rounds would have been the same for round #4  ( the live round)  IOW... After firing of the third round the shooter would have opened the bolt and extracted and ejected the spent shell from that third cartridge, then by reflex action he would automatically close the bolt ....Thus feeding the fourth round into the annular space on the face of the bolt and loading the live cartridge into the chamber and automatically ( reflex action) CLOSING AND LATCHING the bolt .
IOW...... If that live round had been in the clip as the bottom cartridge, then  it would have been scratched by the elevator when the three previous rounds were fired...( There are no scratches caused by the elevator on the live round )   

And the bolt would have been closed and latched .... BUT.....as Tom Alyea's photo shows  the bolt is NOT closed and latched.  The bolt handle is standing in the exact position it would be if someone had simply dropped the live round into the chamber and attempted to close the bolt.   The carcano cannot be loaded( made ready to fire)  with a single cartridge by dropping the single cartridge into the chamber because the bolt cannot be closed and latched. The cartridge MUST  be loaded into the chamber by being attached to bolt by being served up into the bolt by the elevator.
 

Notice that the elevator is just pushing the live round up and into the annular space on the face of the bolt.

One other point....  IF the rifle had been loaded with four rounds in a clip,..... when the third shot was fired and ejected the elevator would have automatically fed the fourth round up into the face of the bolt  and THE CLIP WOULD HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE MAGAZINE.     So ....The clip should have been lying on the floor in the so called "sniper's Nest" ....

The fact that the clip was still in the rifle when Lt. Day was dusting the rifle for prints ( see Alyea's film of Day dusting the rifle ) is simply another point that reveals the clip, like the live round,, was placed in the rifle just before the yokel hid the rifle.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 04:53:49 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2022, 04:15:47 PM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2022, 04:50:34 PM »
The fact that the clip was still in the rifle when Lt. Day was dusting the rifle for prints ( see Alyea's film of Day dusting the rifle ) is simply another point that reveals the clip, like the live round,, was placed in the rifle just before the yokel hid the rifle.

What would be the intention of putting the clip back in and dropping a round into the chamber?

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2022, 04:50:34 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2022, 05:10:05 PM »
What would be the intention of putting the clip back in and dropping a round into the chamber?

Good question, Jim....  Of course I can only speculate, since I'm not the person who performed the action.....

I would guess that the person wanted to lend realism ( believable and ready acceptance) that the rifle had just been fired.

I'll bet the farm that the carcano was NOT fired that day....  The three spent shells had been fired previously at some other location, and one of those spent shells has the scratch marks that were made by the elevator. Which indicates that that spent shell was the last round in the clip at the time that shell was fired.

 

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2022, 05:10:05 PM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2022, 06:21:50 PM »
Good question, Jim....  Of course I can only speculate, since I'm not the person who performed the action.....

I would guess that the person wanted to lend realism ( believable and ready acceptance) that the rifle had just been fired.

I'll bet the farm that the carcano was NOT fired that day....  The three spent shells had been fired previously at some other location, and one of those spent shells has the scratch marks that were made by the elevator. Which indicates that that spent shell was the last round in the clip at the time that shell was fired.

OK. Time for the LNers to give their opinion about this dropped in round.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2022, 06:21:50 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2022, 08:07:53 PM »
OK. Time for the LNers to give their opinion about this dropped in round.

In a nut shell .... The bolt standing in the position that is seen in the Alyea film, plus the fact that the live round has no scratch marks from being the last round in a clip is proof that the rifle was not fired that day.


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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2022, 08:07:53 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2022, 04:11:02 PM »
In a nut shell .... The bolt standing in the position that is seen in the Alyea film, plus the fact that the live round has no scratch marks from being the last round in a clip is proof that the rifle was not fired that day.

Whew!  Alert the NY Times.  Our word for today is "conclusory":  consisting of or relating to a conclusion or assertion for which no supporting evidence is offered.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2022, 04:11:02 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2022, 04:30:12 PM »
Whew!  Alert the NY Times.  Our word for today is "conclusory":  consisting of or relating to a conclusion or assertion for which no supporting evidence is offered.

Itís apparently his middle nameÖ.   ;)

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2022, 04:30:12 PM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2022, 06:12:32 PM »
Whew!  Alert the NY Times.  Our word for today is "conclusory":  consisting of or relating to a conclusion or assertion for which no supporting evidence is offered.

What is your explanation for this unmarked, dropped in live round? The lone nut did nutty things?

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2022, 06:12:32 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2022, 06:19:24 PM »
Itís apparently his middle nameÖ.   ;)

I doubt that was intend to be a .....a compliment, But I'll accept it as such.    A person who can't CONCLUDE something that is obvious (like 2 + 2 ) is either mentally deficient, or a coward who is afraid to face the facts.

I your case Mr Collins I believe it's the former..... You simply don't understand how the carcano operates....but that's not totally your fault.    There have been ignorant people who have posted erroneous information about the carcano and some innocently ignorant folks have accepted that inaccurate information and thus they don't know what they are talking about.

I'm referring to the ability to load a single round into the chamber of a carcano by merely dropping a round into the chamber  and closing and latching the bolt....   I don't give a hoot if the guy who believes that is a "firearms expert" who is truly  knowledgeable  about hundreds of rifles.... and he bases his belief on several other bolt action rifles ...He doesn't truly know how the carcano operates.

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2022, 06:19:24 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2022, 06:57:34 PM »
I doubt that was intend to be a .....a compliment, But I'll accept it as such.    A person who can't CONCLUDE something that is obvious (like 2 + 2 ) is either mentally deficient, or a coward who is afraid to face the facts.

I your case Mr Collins I believe it's the former..... You simply don't understand how the carcano operates....but that's not totally your fault.    There have been ignorant people who have posted erroneous information about the carcano and some innocently ignorant folks have accepted that inaccurate information and thus they don't know what they are talking about.

I'm referring to the ability to load a single round into the chamber of a carcano by merely dropping a round into the chamber  and closing and latching the bolt....   I don't give a hoot if the guy who believes that is a "firearms expert" who is truly  knowledgeable  about hundreds of rifles.... and he bases his belief on several other bolt action rifles ...He doesn't truly know how the carcano operates.


I have already agreed that, when the rifle was first lifted from the floor by Day, the bolt handle appears to be in the up position versus the locked (down) position. However, I donít agree that the bolt was not in the fully forward position. And I donít believe that the cartridge would necessarily have to be scratched by the elevator. Where do you find any supporting evidence for your claim that it would necessarily have to have been scratched by the elevator?

 

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