The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ

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Online Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 01:33:08 AM »

Oh dear.

So, do you or do you not detect a brief look of distain, around 6:52, when he describes Governor Terry Sanford as a "southern racial moderate". Note, Terry Sanford was, indeed, a "southern racial moderate", one who supported civil rights and equal treatment for blacks. And I detect a certain distain that Stone has for Sanford, or any other "southern racial moderate".

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 01:33:08 AM »

Offline Jake Maxwell

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 05:05:46 AM »

Oswald was a choir boy... compared to LBJ and Hoover...

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 05:05:46 AM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 09:37:50 AM »
So, do you or do you not detect a brief look of distain, around 6:52, when he describes Governor Terry Sanford as a "southern racial moderate". Note, Terry Sanford was, indeed, a "southern racial moderate", one who supported civil rights and equal treatment for blacks. And I detect a certain distain that Stone has for Sanford, or any other "southern racial moderate".

Not so sure. He makes that same facial expression many times during the talk.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 09:37:50 AM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 06:39:07 PM »

Not so sure. He makes that same facial expression many times during the talk.

Good to know. So, where else does he make a similar facial expression? Like at 10:12? 17:53?

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 06:39:07 PM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 08:30:14 PM »

A measure of how well a person can reason is the ability to spot flaws, or potential flaws in a theory.

The greatest flaw, or potential flaw, in the Theory of Evolution, is the evolution of eyes. How could a perfect eye suddenly evolve through natural selection? Who first thought of this argument against evolution? None other than Charles Darwin. Of course, this argument against evolution has flaws. In the animal kingdom, there is a very wide range of visual acuity. Ranging from very good, like our own. Very very good, at least under bright lighting, for eagles. Down to a bare ability to detect the direction of the sun, allowing a primitive animal to move upward in the water column during the day. An animal does not need a fully function ‘eye’ to make use of vision, even very poor vision.

Roger Stone seems to have a poor ability to spot flaws in arguments. His support for the ‘Stolen Election in 2020’ narrative shows this. If Dominion Voting Systems software was rigged, one can easily detect this by doing a manual recount of the votes. Which Trump did have done in certain counties. So, why didn’t these recounts show a discrepancy?

Similarly, Roger Stone’s basic theory has a very basic flaw. Which he never addresses. Which I believe he was unaware of. Which I believe that Stone’s supporters are unaware of.

Question:

Can any Roger Stone supporter here say what this fundamental flaw in his argument is?


I will await an answer for a day or two. Here is an opportunity that you can make use of good skeptical reasoning. Skeptics are good at spotting flaws.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 08:30:14 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2022, 01:53:13 AM »

Roger Stone supporter... I will await an answer for a day or two. Here is an opportunity that you can make use of good skeptical reasoning. Skeptics are good at spotting flaws.
Why wait for only 2 days? There are members...posters and guests that are off and on and don't live here like you apparently do.
I suggest that you read "A Texan Looks at Lyndon". It is available here quite cheaply....
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632&_nkw=a+texan+looks+at+lyndon&_sacat=261186
It details how LBJ got his power and climbed through the ranks [by climbing all over other people]
It certainly wasn't his good looks that made him get to be senator from Texas.
You don't have to be a Roger Stone supporter to agree with several of his points.
I mean he isn't running for office.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2022, 01:53:13 AM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 02:48:04 AM »

. . .
I suggest that you read "A Texan Looks at Lyndon". It is available here quite cheaply....
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632&_nkw=a+texan+looks+at+lyndon&_sacat=261186
It details how LBJ got his power and climbed through the ranks [by climbing all over other people]
It certainly wasn't his good looks that made him get to be senator from Texas.
You don't have to be a Roger Stone supporter to agree with several of his points.
I mean he isn't running for office.

No. I wasted 45 minutes wading through Roger Stone’s talk, to see if he would deal with the big contradiction in his story. And, as I predicted, he didn’t deal with the issue at all. It is possible he is not even aware of it.

Let’s limit our discussion to the talk by Roger Stone that you originally presented. If I dive into this book and find obvious problems, you’ll just point to three other books.

Why wait for only 2 days? There are members...posters and guests that are off and on and don't live here like you apparently do.
. . .

Well, you have time to respond to my post. So, what is the big, obvious contradiction in Roger Stone’s theory? It’s not something obscure. It is an obvious problem, which a true skeptic should have no problem spotting?

Or are you incapable of spotting it, even after I have alerted you to it?


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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 02:48:04 AM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 09:37:25 PM »

OK. It is clear that the supporters of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario cannot see the obvious flaw in his thesis. Basically, here is what Roger Stone says:

In 1960:
Kennedy won the democratic nomination for President.
Kennedy was going to pick someone other than Johnson as his Vice President running mate.
However, Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover met with Kennedy in private, where Hoover showed Kennedy a dossier on the numerous affairs he had with other women.
This information would be released if Kennedy did not choose Johnson as his running mate.
With this threat, Kennedy had no choice but to make Johnson his running mate:

Now, in 1963:
Kennedy had decided not to have Johnson as his running mate in 1964.
Kennedy also decided, if he wins reelection, to force J. Edgar Hoover to resign as the head of the FBI.
Once out of office, Johnson would be subject to prosecution and would likely end up in a federal prison.
So, Johnson decided that because of this, he had no choice but to have Kennedy assassinated to avoid this happening.
Naturally, J. Edgar Hoover went along with this plot, so he could maintain his position.

OK. I think that by now, the supporters of Roger Stone’s scenario can now see the problem for the first time.

Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Why did Kennedy think he could get away with forcing both Johnson and Hoover to retire, when Hoover still had this dossier?


In 1963, why couldn’t Johnson continue to force Kennedy to keep him as his running mate in 1964?
In 1963, why couldn’t J. Edgar Hoover continue to force Kennedy to keep him as head of the FBI?

Roger Stone explicitly states that Kennedy was planning to dump both Johnson and Hoover. So, even if there was a falling out between Johnson and Hoover, which, up until now, I have never heard the CTers claim, Hoover’s position should still have been safe.

This is the greatest, most obvious flaw in Stone’s scenario. He should have dealt with this in his talk. This seems to be a common problem with Stone. He supports the “Stolen Election of 2020” scenario, presumably including the “Dominion Voting Machines” throwing the election to Biden, without ever explaining why the manual recounts of certain counties, which Trump had requested, did not reveal a large difference between the manual recount and the machine recounts.

It appears to me that certain CTers cannot spot obvious flaws in proposed theories. An inability they share with the more rabid Trump supporters. Without this ability, how can they expect to figure out what the truth is?

Now, I expect CTers will try to change the subject. Something along the lines of “Oh yeah, well why can’t you see the obvious flaws in the Single Bullet Theory”. But I want them to concentrate on one question? Why didn’t any of them point out this fundamental flaw in Roger Stone’s argument? Why couldn’t they see this flaw even after I told them it was there?

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 09:37:25 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »
OK. It is clear that the supporters of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario cannot see the obvious flaw in his thesis.

Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Quote
Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 10:52:05 PM »

Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Perhaps Kennedy had something on LBJ by 1964 which annulled the affairs dossier as a threat?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 10:53:06 PM by Jim Hawthorn »

 

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