The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ


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Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 02:48:04 AM »

. . .
I suggest that you read "A Texan Looks at Lyndon". It is available here quite cheaply....
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632&_nkw=a+texan+looks+at+lyndon&_sacat=261186
It details how LBJ got his power and climbed through the ranks [by climbing all over other people]
It certainly wasn't his good looks that made him get to be senator from Texas.
You don't have to be a Roger Stone supporter to agree with several of his points.
I mean he isn't running for office.

No. I wasted 45 minutes wading through Roger Stone’s talk, to see if he would deal with the big contradiction in his story. And, as I predicted, he didn’t deal with the issue at all. It is possible he is not even aware of it.

Let’s limit our discussion to the talk by Roger Stone that you originally presented. If I dive into this book and find obvious problems, you’ll just point to three other books.

Why wait for only 2 days? There are members...posters and guests that are off and on and don't live here like you apparently do.
. . .

Well, you have time to respond to my post. So, what is the big, obvious contradiction in Roger Stone’s theory? It’s not something obscure. It is an obvious problem, which a true skeptic should have no problem spotting?

Or are you incapable of spotting it, even after I have alerted you to it?


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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 02:48:04 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 09:37:25 PM »

OK. It is clear that the supporters of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario cannot see the obvious flaw in his thesis. Basically, here is what Roger Stone says:

In 1960:
Kennedy won the democratic nomination for President.
Kennedy was going to pick someone other than Johnson as his Vice President running mate.
However, Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover met with Kennedy in private, where Hoover showed Kennedy a dossier on the numerous affairs he had with other women.
This information would be released if Kennedy did not choose Johnson as his running mate.
With this threat, Kennedy had no choice but to make Johnson his running mate:

Now, in 1963:
Kennedy had decided not to have Johnson as his running mate in 1964.
Kennedy also decided, if he wins reelection, to force J. Edgar Hoover to resign as the head of the FBI.
Once out of office, Johnson would be subject to prosecution and would likely end up in a federal prison.
So, Johnson decided that because of this, he had no choice but to have Kennedy assassinated to avoid this happening.
Naturally, J. Edgar Hoover went along with this plot, so he could maintain his position.

OK. I think that by now, the supporters of Roger Stone’s scenario can now see the problem for the first time.

Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Why did Kennedy think he could get away with forcing both Johnson and Hoover to retire, when Hoover still had this dossier?


In 1963, why couldn’t Johnson continue to force Kennedy to keep him as his running mate in 1964?
In 1963, why couldn’t J. Edgar Hoover continue to force Kennedy to keep him as head of the FBI?

Roger Stone explicitly states that Kennedy was planning to dump both Johnson and Hoover. So, even if there was a falling out between Johnson and Hoover, which, up until now, I have never heard the CTers claim, Hoover’s position should still have been safe.

This is the greatest, most obvious flaw in Stone’s scenario. He should have dealt with this in his talk. This seems to be a common problem with Stone. He supports the “Stolen Election of 2020” scenario, presumably including the “Dominion Voting Machines” throwing the election to Biden, without ever explaining why the manual recounts of certain counties, which Trump had requested, did not reveal a large difference between the manual recount and the machine recounts.

It appears to me that certain CTers cannot spot obvious flaws in proposed theories. An inability they share with the more rabid Trump supporters. Without this ability, how can they expect to figure out what the truth is?

Now, I expect CTers will try to change the subject. Something along the lines of “Oh yeah, well why can’t you see the obvious flaws in the Single Bullet Theory”. But I want them to concentrate on one question? Why didn’t any of them point out this fundamental flaw in Roger Stone’s argument? Why couldn’t they see this flaw even after I told them it was there?

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »
OK. It is clear that the supporters of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario cannot see the obvious flaw in his thesis.

Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Quote
Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »


Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 10:52:05 PM »

Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?

Perhaps Kennedy had something on LBJ by 1964 which annulled the affairs dossier as a threat?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 10:53:06 PM by Jim Hawthorn »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 11:41:49 PM »
Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

I believe that Hoover had past retirement age during JFK's first term, so JFK could have forced Hover to retirement by refusing to waive the mandatory retirement for Hoover

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2022, 12:20:31 AM »

Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Obviously, Jerry Freeman, who posted the video of Roger Stone’s talk.

Jim Hawthorn who found the video very interesting. And wanted to know how the detractors could counter this video. I don’t think Jim considered himself as one of the detractors. And who recently suggested, at the time stamp of 1:37:25 PM today, that perhaps Kennedy had something on Johnson which annulled the dossier.

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

More power in what ways? By ordering the FBI to discredit a released dossier? I think even a sitting president would greatly fear what Hoover could do, particularly with an election coming up. And even after the election of 1964, how such a release would affect his legacy.

In any case, Roger Stone should have dealt with this issue. As Jerry Freeman and Jim Hawthorn should have done. I would certainly do so if I supported a theory that seemingly contains a major flaw.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2022, 12:20:31 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2022, 12:30:55 AM »


Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?



Perhaps Kennedy had something on LBJ by 1964 which annulled the affairs dossier as a threat?


No. Remember, Roger Stone said that Johnson was facing federal prison if he didn’t remain in high office. That was why threat of Kennedy removing him from the ticket was very serious. Regardless what Kennedy had on Johnson, Johnson would tell Kennedy it doesn’t matter. If Johnson is going down then they both have to go down. What has he got to lose if he is going to go to prison anyway?

In any case, this is nothing more than speculation on your part, about what Kennedy had on Johnson.

And finally, why didn’t you point out this contradiction in Roger Stone’s talk yourself? I think the answer is, that you were unable to detect this contradiction. Do you deny this?

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2022, 12:32:38 AM »

I believe that Hoover had past retirement age during JFK's first term, so JFK could have forced Hover to retirement by refusing to waive the mandatory retirement for Hoover

And if JFK tries to do this, Hoover will threaten to release the dossier.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2022, 12:32:38 AM »


 

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