The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ

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Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 11:41:49 PM »
Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

I believe that Hoover had past retirement age during JFK's first term, so JFK could have forced Hover to retirement by refusing to waive the mandatory retirement for Hoover

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 11:41:49 PM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2022, 12:20:31 AM »

Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.

Obviously, Jerry Freeman, who posted the video of Roger Stone’s talk.

Jim Hawthorn who found the video very interesting. And wanted to know how the detractors could counter this video. I don’t think Jim considered himself as one of the detractors. And who recently suggested, at the time stamp of 1:37:25 PM today, that perhaps Kennedy had something on Johnson which annulled the dossier.

Fair enough, but would you agree that a sitting president has far more power in every respect than a person merely running for president?

More power in what ways? By ordering the FBI to discredit a released dossier? I think even a sitting president would greatly fear what Hoover could do, particularly with an election coming up. And even after the election of 1964, how such a release would affect his legacy.

In any case, Roger Stone should have dealt with this issue. As Jerry Freeman and Jim Hawthorn should have done. I would certainly do so if I supported a theory that seemingly contains a major flaw.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2022, 12:20:31 AM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2022, 12:30:55 AM »


Why was this dossier so effective in controlling Kennedy in 1960 have seemingly so little effect in 1963?



Perhaps Kennedy had something on LBJ by 1964 which annulled the affairs dossier as a threat?


No. Remember, Roger Stone said that Johnson was facing federal prison if he didn’t remain in high office. That was why threat of Kennedy removing him from the ticket was very serious. Regardless what Kennedy had on Johnson, Johnson would tell Kennedy it doesn’t matter. If Johnson is going down then they both have to go down. What has he got to lose if he is going to go to prison anyway?

In any case, this is nothing more than speculation on your part, about what Kennedy had on Johnson.

And finally, why didn’t you point out this contradiction in Roger Stone’s talk yourself? I think the answer is, that you were unable to detect this contradiction. Do you deny this?

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2022, 12:30:55 AM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2022, 12:32:38 AM »

I believe that Hoover had past retirement age during JFK's first term, so JFK could have forced Hover to retirement by refusing to waive the mandatory retirement for Hoover

And if JFK tries to do this, Hoover will threaten to release the dossier.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2022, 12:32:38 AM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2022, 05:38:39 AM »
Obviously, Jerry Freeman, who posted the video of Roger Stone’s talk.

He posted a video link. How is that the same as “supporter of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario”?

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Jim Hawthorn who found the video very interesting.

Or that.

I think I see the problem. In your mind, lack of detraction automatically means support. Just as lack of proof of innocence automatically means guilt.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2022, 05:38:39 AM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2022, 05:47:31 AM »
OK. It is clear that the supporters of Roger Stone’s JFK conspiracy scenario cannot see the obvious flaw in his thesis....
Who are you referring to? You would do well to first determine if there are any here before declaring that you stumped them.
Obviously, Jerry Freeman, who posted the video of Roger Stone’s talk.
I didn't realize that I was a one man team of supporters. Viewers of the video might consult the comments and see that virtually hundreds 100% believe that Johnson was a bastard and commanded a cover up.
Apparently Joe Elliott wants to achieve either some exuberance of upmanship we'll say...
Or he genuinely believes that the kindly and honest Lyndon Baines Johnson had no ulterior motive in directing the inquiry into the assassination toward the one and only accused. Johnson told Warren that he absolutely will not hear of any of this conspiracy crap.
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You don't have to be a Roger Stone supporter to agree with several of his points.
I didn't say I agreed with all [ie the blackmail stuff]
I agreed based on what I independently know... that LBJ was an evil conniving bully SOB that would stop at nothing to get to the White House but he was up to his elephant size ears with scandals [Billie Sol Estes and Bobby Baker] Those disappeared with an oath of office.
Hoover's FBI was his wet nurse. And LBJ even had his own sister killed...nice guy huh? 

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2022, 05:47:31 AM »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 08:13:08 AM »
No. Remember, Roger Stone said that Johnson was facing federal prison if he didn’t remain in high office. That was why threat of Kennedy removing him from the ticket was very serious. Regardless what Kennedy had on Johnson, Johnson would tell Kennedy it doesn’t matter. If Johnson is going down then they both have to go down. What has he got to lose if he is going to go to prison anyway?

In any case, this is nothing more than speculation on your part, about what Kennedy had on Johnson.

And finally, why didn’t you point out this contradiction in Roger Stone’s talk yourself? I think the answer is, that you were unable to detect this contradiction. Do you deny this?

I haven't studied the LBJ angle in depth. There are things are in the video that I wasn't aware of, so I was simply asking for the opinions of the more well-read members here. Obviously I was unable to "detect the contradiction". No big deal, just explain your opinions more clearly.

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 08:13:08 AM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 03:24:53 PM »

. . .
I didn't say I agreed with all [ie the blackmail stuff]
. . .

It doesn’t matter whether you agreed with it or not. I simply asked what was the biggest contradiction in Roger Stone’s talk. And you were unable to see one. Not even after I told you that there was one. To be a true “Skeptic”, you have to be able to see when people are contradicting themselves.


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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 03:24:53 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2022, 06:52:06 PM »
  To be a true “Skeptic”, you have to be able to see when people are contradicting themselves.
So therefore... I fail as a skeptic ...according to your evaluation?  Not surprising -I got the same vibe from Tommy Graves :D

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2022, 06:52:06 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2022, 09:01:48 PM »
Multiple people have explained why it’s not necessarily a contradiction. Perhaps Joe should apply his skepticism to his own claims.

 

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