Progress... Have we made any ?.....

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Online Richard Smith

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2022, 04:07:07 PM »
If actual film footage of the rifle being removed from it's hiding place isn't enough to decide the matter then nothing will.

If a time machine were invented that allowed the likes of Walt to sit in Oswald's lap while he pulled the trigger, he would gouge his own eyes out rather than have to acknowledge Oswald's guilt. 

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2022, 04:07:07 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2022, 04:53:08 PM »
If a time machine were invented that allowed the likes of Walt to sit in Oswald's lap while he pulled the trigger, he would gouge his own eyes out rather than have to acknowledge Oswald's guilt.

It's just the opposite.... You Mr "smith" refuse to accept factual evidence....   It may surprise you to know that once upon a time I praised Jack Ruby for doing a great service to the country for lynching Lee Oswald...... But then I learned the truth..

It should have been LBJ who went to the gallows......

 

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2022, 04:53:08 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2022, 07:09:21 PM »
 

Seems to me that east-side window doesn't offer much of a vantage point to the sidewalk. The north window maybe for a second as does the view from the open door of the lunchroom. Oswald would have to be already staring out the north window or the lunchroom door to observe the two men passing. That suggests he wasn't reading the newspaper or eating his "lunch". Maybe Lee was looking out at the sky and daydreaming of hijacking a plane to Cuba.

I believe Oswald in the SN window could have seen the two men hanging out together on the sidewalk. Then they appear together at the same time on the floor and side of the building that was below the SN window. Not a stretch to venture they entered the building together.



As Oswald didn't specify seeing them pass by the north window, it's just as likely he would have assumed they entered through the front door, where--depending on where he sat in the lunchroom--his odds of seeing them were much greater.

So where does Oswald say he saw the two men men pass through the first floor at 12:25/26?

Oswald would have to be already staring out the north window or the lunchroom door to observe the two men passing. That suggests he wasn't reading the newspaper or eating his "lunch". Maybe Lee was looking out at the sky and daydreaming of hijacking a plane to Cuba.

Thank you....  for acknowledging that Lee Oswald was in fact in a position from which he could easily have seen Jarman and Norman as they walked by the 1st floor lunchroom as they traveled to the 5th floor of the TSBD at 12:26.  It is irrelevant and it doesn't make any difference what he was doing .....eating , looking at a newspaper, or daydreaming.... He was there and he saw those two men walk by at 12:26.

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2022, 07:09:21 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2022, 10:05:36 PM »
If “Richard” went back in a time machine and saw that it wasn’t Oswald, he would just lie about it and say that it was.

Over and over and over.

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2022, 10:05:36 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2022, 11:16:45 PM »
It's just the opposite.... You Mr "smith" refuse to accept factual evidence....   It may surprise you to know that once upon a time I praised Jack Ruby for doing a great service to the country for lynching Lee Oswald...... But then I learned the truth..

It should have been LBJ who went to the gallows......

 

I don't have any preconceived bias for or against Oswald or a JFK conspiracy/LN conclusion.  The evidence makes that determination.  For example, the evidence is convincing that John Wilkes Booth was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate President Lincoln and members of his Cabinet.  I have no vested interest in that conclusion.  It is a matter of the evidence.  There is no credible evidence, however, that anyone other than LHO was involved in the assassination of JFK.  What I take issue with is the use of faulty logic, outright falsehoods, and bizarre, baseless theories such as the red rings on the TSBD being a signal to LBJ.  That is all complete nonsense.  You have not cited a scintilla of credible evidence of a JFK conspiracy.  You can't even articulate a sensible conspiracy narrative that explains the known facts and circumstances.  In fact, the alleged motivations and actual actions of your fantasy conspirators are often completely contradictory.  In some instances, we are told that the motivation of the conspirators was to instigate a war with Cuba.  And, yet, within an hour of the assassination we are told that the conspirators were placing all the blame for the assassination on Oswald and ruling out the involvement of others.  Entirely undermining the articulated objective to blame Cuba as a pretext for war etc.  And on and on and on down the rabbit hole.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 02:11:57 PM by Richard Smith »

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2022, 11:16:45 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2022, 11:50:40 PM »
I don't have any preconceived bias for or against Oswald or a JFK conspiracy?LN conclusion.  The evidence makes that determination.  For example, the evidence is convincing that John Wilkes Booth was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate President Lincoln and members of his Cabinet.  I have no vested interest in that conclusion.  It is a matter of the evidence.  There is no credible evidence, however, that anyone other than LHO was involved in the assassination of JFK.  What I take issue with is the use of faulty logic, outright falsehoods, and bizarre, baseless theories such as the red rings on the TSBD being a signal to LBJ.  That is all complete nonsense.  You have not cited a scintilla of credible evidence of a JFK conspiracy.  You can't even articulate a sensible conspiracy narrative that explains the known facts and circumstances.  In fact, the alleged motivations and actual actions of your fantasy conspirators are often completely contradictory.  In some instances, we are told that the motivation of the conspirators was to instigate a war with Cuba.  And, yet, within an hour of the assassination we are told that the conspirators were placing all the blame for the assassination on Oswald and ruling out the involvement of others.  Entirely undermining the articulated objective to blame Cuba as a pretext for war etc.  And on and on and on down the rabbit hole.

I don't have any preconceived bias for or against Oswald or a JFK conspiracy?LN conclusion.  The evidence makes that determination.


 Lee had a rock solid alibi. He saw Jarman & Norman walking  past the 1st floor lunch room as they traveled from the front of the TSBD to the 5th floor at 12:25. Jarman said that they departed from the front of the TSBD at about 12:25 and arrived on the fifth floor at about 12:28.

Jarman and Norman testified that they walked on the Houston street sidewalk on the east side of the TSBD. They walked from the front of the TSBD to the rear of the building and climbed the steps to the loading dock and then entered the shipping room by the back door.   Lee could have seen them in several places.......

Now then, Mr "smith".....  This the truth....Lee Oswald was in that 1st floor lunchroom at the time Jarman and Norman walked by....( 12:26)...So he couldn't have been on the sixth floor and murdering the President at 12:30....

Can you handle the truth.... , Mr "smith".... or are you too gutless.   
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 11:56:06 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2022, 11:50:40 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2022, 04:45:23 AM »
What I take issue with is the use of faulty logic, outright falsehoods, and bizarre, baseless theories

Says the guy who uses faulty logic, outright falsehoods, and bizarre, baseless theories.

Over and over and over.

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2022, 04:45:23 AM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2022, 02:19:35 PM »
I don't have any preconceived bias for or against Oswald or a JFK conspiracy?LN conclusion.  The evidence makes that determination.


 Lee had a rock solid alibi. He saw Jarman & Norman walking  past the 1st floor lunch room as they traveled from the front of the TSBD to the 5th floor at 12:25. Jarman said that they departed from the front of the TSBD at about 12:25 and arrived on the fifth floor at about 12:28.

Jarman and Norman testified that they walked on the Houston street sidewalk on the east side of the TSBD. They walked from the front of the TSBD to the rear of the building and climbed the steps to the loading dock and then entered the shipping room by the back door.   Lee could have seen them in several places.......

Now then, Mr "smith".....  This the truth....Lee Oswald was in that 1st floor lunchroom at the time Jarman and Norman walked by....( 12:26)...So he couldn't have been on the sixth floor and murdering the President at 12:30....

Can you handle the truth.... , Mr "smith".... or are you too gutless.

This is just another example of faulty logic.  A suspect does not have a "rock solid" alibi by claiming to have seen others.  It works the other way.  Someone confirms that they saw the suspect at a time and place that precludes them from having committed the crime.  Even in your fantasy, it would still would not preclude Oswald from being on 6th floor.  Four minutes is plenty of time to walk up a few flights of stairs or taken the elevator.  The facts and evidence place LHO in the SN at 12:30. 

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2022, 02:19:35 PM »

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2022, 04:00:03 PM »
This is just another example of faulty logic.  A suspect does not have a "rock solid" alibi by claiming to have seen others.  It works the other way.  Someone confirms that they saw the suspect at a time and place that precludes them from having committed the crime.  Even in your fantasy, it would still would not preclude Oswald from being on 6th floor.  Four minutes is plenty of time to walk up a few flights of stairs or taken the elevator.  The facts and evidence place LHO in the SN at 12:30.

"The facts and evidence place LHO in the SN at 12:30"

This is incorrect and is the key weakness at the heart of the LN narrative.
Almost every piece of evidence pertaining to who was on the 6th floor just before, during and after the assassination points away from Oswald:

Three of the five witnesses who saw a man on the 6th floor at this time describe him wearing a white/very light coloured, open neck shirt. Oswald didn't wear such a shirt to work that day and didn't have one in his possessions.

Euins describes a distinctive bald spot on top of the shooter's head - something Oswald didn't have.

Dorothy Garner followed her work colleagues out to the back stairs in time to hear them rush down and was still there when Truly and Baker came up. There was no sign of Oswald supposedly heading down the stairs.

Oswald is reported seeing Jarman and Norman together. The only time during the lunch break that this could have occurred is when the two men came back into the building by the rear door. Oswald must have been on the first floor to witness this. According to their testimonies this can be placed around 12:25pm. The importance of this is that at least ten minutes earlier Arnold Rowland witnessed a white male carrying a rifle on the 6th floor.

Even Brennan, whose dubious and belated identification of Oswald is the single piece of evidence that places Oswald at the scene, describes the shooter as a much older man than Oswald. He also describes the shooter standing at the window, admiring his handiwork, as the presidential limo enters the underpass - in stark contrast with the WC narrative, which has Oswald rushing away from the SN in time for his rendezvous with Baker and Truly. In an indirect way this is supported by Hank Norman, who can hear the shells hitting the floor just above him, but doesn't hear anyone rushing away.

The facts and the evidence most certainly do not place Oswald in the SN at 12:30pm.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 04:01:01 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2022, 04:00:03 PM »

Offline Paul J Cummings

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Re: Progress... Have we made any ?.....
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2022, 05:07:50 PM »
Did I miss something or is this thread about the gun found? Thanks and I'll take your answer off the air.

 

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