CE 833

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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2022, 09:15:47 PM »
Ruth told the FBI about Oswald’s letter to the Soviet Embassy. Therefore she was an informant about that, at least.

John..... Ruth Paine didn't merely tell the FBI about Lee's letter to the Soviet Embassy....  She actually took Lee's rough, hand written draft out of the trash can where lee had tossed it, . and then she typed up the copy and called the FBI.  Agent Hosty came to her house and talked to her and she gave him the original and the copy that she had typed.

   

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2022, 09:15:47 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2022, 10:47:55 PM »
    John..... Ruth Paine didn't merely tell the FBI about Lee's letter to the Soviet Embassy....  She actually took Lee's rough, hand written draft out of the trash can where lee had tossed it, . and then she typed up the copy and called the FBI.  Agent Hosty came to her house and talked to her and she gave him the original and the copy that she had typed.

       


    • The FBI was already aware, in October, of the Oswald -Soviet Embassy meeting in Mexico City.
    • Hosty wrote that, on 11/22/63 shortly after the assassination, he saw a copy of the actual letter that was sent to the Soviet Embassy.
    • Ruth Paine didn’t call the FBI to inform them of the handwritten draft of the letter. She brought it out when Hosty and his partner came to her house on 11/23 for an interview.
    • Ruth had the phone number of LHO’s rooming house but didn’t give it to Hosty during his visits of 11/1 & 11/5.
    • Ruth copied the draft of the letter more than a week before the assassination. But she didn’t give it to Hosty until after the assassination.

    If Ruth was an informant for the FBI (she wasn’t) then she was a very ineffective one….
    [/list]
    « Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 10:58:14 PM by Charles Collins »

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2022, 10:47:55 PM »

    Online Richard Smith

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #12 on: July 13, 2022, 11:23:46 PM »
      • The FBI was already aware, in October, of the Oswald -Soviet Embassy meeting in Mexico City.
      • Hosty wrote that, on 11/22/63 shortly after the assassination, he saw a copy of the actual letter that was sent to the Soviet Embassy.
      • Ruth Paine didn’t call the FBI to inform them of the handwritten draft of the letter. She brought it out when Hosty and his partner came to her house on 11/23 for an interview.
      • Ruth had the phone number of LHO’s rooming house but didn’t give it to Hosty during his visits of 11/1 & 11/5.
      • Ruth copied the draft of the letter more than a week before the assassination. But she didn’t give it to Hosty until after the assassination.

      If Ruth was an informant for the FBI (she wasn’t) then she was a very ineffective one….

    That's correct.  A member of the public who voluntarily provides a tip to law enforcement based on something they have observed (rather than being recruited by a law enforcement agency) is merely a good citizen.  Even if by some pedantic interpretation she were to be deemed an "FBI informant" that is meaningless as to whether Oswald was the assassin.  There is zero evidence that Paine was involved in any frame up of Oswald.  In fact, very little of what Ruth Paine contributed lends itself to Oswald's guilt.  She didn't, for example, confirm his ownership of a rifle, claim that Oswald had any animosity toward JFK, or claim that see saw him carrying a large package on the morning of the assassination.  All obvious things that an "FBI informant" or anyone involved in the framing of Oswald could have done in her situation.  Thus, it is moot from that perspective and interjected only by desperate contrarians attempting to suggest doubt by any means.  Ruth Paine - Quaker housewife and part time "FBI informant"!  Cue sinister music.

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #12 on: July 13, 2022, 11:23:46 PM »

    Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2022, 11:27:04 PM »
      • The FBI was already aware, in October, of the Oswald -Soviet Embassy meeting in Mexico City.
      • Hosty wrote that, on 11/22/63 shortly after the assassination, he saw a copy of the actual letter that was sent to the Soviet Embassy.
      • Ruth Paine didn’t call the FBI to inform them of the handwritten draft of the letter. She brought it out when Hosty and his partner came to her house on 11/23 for an interview.
      • Ruth had the phone number of LHO’s rooming house but didn’t give it to Hosty during his visits of 11/1 & 11/5.
      • Ruth copied the draft of the letter more than a week before the assassination. But she didn’t give it to Hosty until after the assassination.

      If Ruth was an informant for the FBI (she wasn’t) then she was a very ineffective one….
    Correct. She gave Hosty the letter AFTER the assassination. And she told Oswald about the meetings. That angered him and he went to FBI headquarters to confront Hosty.

    She and Michael testified that she showed him the letter and asked what they should do about it. He said it was nothing, that Oswald was bragging about his behavior, that he (and she) didn't think he actually went to Mexico City and visited the embassies. He had made it all up.

    So she not only withheld this from Hosty, she told Oswald about the meetings. That's a pretty bad informant if you ask me. Besides, wasn't she a CIA agent?

    From Michael Paine's testimony re the letter:

    Mr. PAINE - Ruth was quite bothered by that letter, and apparently had--apparently I hadn't really taken it in. I said, "The heck with it. Yes; it a fantastic lie, isn't that amazing that he will fabricate such stories here."
    Mr. LIEBELER - What did she say?
    Mr. PAINE - No; she said--she approached me and said, "I never realized how much he could lie" or that he was a liar or something like that, and "I want you to read this letter." So I put aside the thing I was reading in which I was more interested and read most of the letter, not the latter part about having used another name. And then I thought it was too personal, "Dear Lisa," so I thought he was telling her, being rather braggadocio telling about his exploits which were rather imaginary and I put it out of my mind....
    « Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 11:29:32 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2022, 11:27:04 PM »

    Offline Jerry Freeman

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #14 on: July 15, 2022, 01:11:10 AM »
    Comments welcome-----
     
    Oswald-CIA01b8" border="0

    Information that was withheld from the Warren Commission, the press, and the American people.
    You can bet your butt that the Soviets had it  :-\
    Of course...the lone gunman guys will claim it's a fake.

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #14 on: July 15, 2022, 01:11:10 AM »

    Offline John Mytton

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #15 on: July 15, 2022, 01:59:27 AM »
    Comments welcome-----
     
    Oswald-CIA01b8" border="0

    Information that was withheld from the Warren Commission, the press, and the American people.
    You can bet your butt that the Soviets had it  :-\
    Of course...the lone gunman guys will claim it's a fake.

     :D



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A poster at alt.assassination.jfk (12-12-06) going by the name dfdean1 asked the National Archives about McCone-Rowley and received this response:

    We appreciate your interest in the JFK Assassination Records Collection. Your request was forwarded to our office because we have custody of the JFK Assassination Records Collection. We have received several requests for information about the McCone/Rowley Memo in the past.

    Our staff conducted an extensive search of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection. In addition to searches on the JFK Database, we carried out physical searches of the files. The file series searched included Lee Harvey Oswald's 201 file; the CIA Miscellaneous File; the United States Secret Service's official case file on the assassination; the Russ Holmes Work File; and the Assassination Records Review Board's files related to the CIA. We were unable to locate a copy of, or any reference to, this document in the Collection.

    If we may be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact our office directly at specialaccess_foia@nara.gov. .

    Sincerely,

    Heather MacRae
    Archivist
    Special Access & FOIA Staff


    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Researcher Anthony Marsh on McCone-Rowley

    posted 12-7-06 at alt.assassination.jfk

    When I looked at it I knew instantly that it was a fake. How? It is not written in the proper format using the proper CIA style. One tip off is the marking "CO-2-34,030." That is actually from a Secret Service report. How would I know? Because I had obtained and used on my Web site some of the pages from that SS report, so the notation jumped out as a fabrication. What someone did was take a page from the SS report, maybe even downloaded it from my Web page, removed the original text and wrote their own. Also the wording is not how the CIA would word a document of that type at that time. They would not refer to Hoover by name or agencies by common names. Instead you would see code words like ODACID. You need to look at hundreds of thousands of genuine CIA documents as I have to develop a mental database of what genuine CIA documents look like. I have no doubt that the hoaxer really thought that something like that was said. I don't think the intent was like the other hoaxes to discredit all JFK assassination research. I think someone just assumed that he knew enough to create a realistic fake to incriminate the CIA.


    JohnM

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #15 on: July 15, 2022, 01:59:27 AM »

    Online Walt Cakebread

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #16 on: July 15, 2022, 02:55:45 AM »
    Correct. She gave Hosty the letter AFTER the assassination. And she told Oswald about the meetings. That angered him and he went to FBI headquarters to confront Hosty.

    She and Michael testified that she showed him the letter and asked what they should do about it. He said it was nothing, that Oswald was bragging about his behavior, that he (and she) didn't think he actually went to Mexico City and visited the embassies. He had made it all up.

    So she not only withheld this from Hosty, she told Oswald about the meetings. That's a pretty bad informant if you ask me. Besides, wasn't she a CIA agent?


    From Michael Paine's testimony re the letter:

    Mr. PAINE - Ruth was quite bothered by that letter, and apparently had--apparently I hadn't really taken it in. I said, "The heck with it. Yes; it a fantastic lie, isn't that amazing that he will fabricate such stories here."
    Mr. LIEBELER - What did she say?
    Mr. PAINE - No; she said--she approached me and said, "I never realized how much he could lie" or that he was a liar or something like that, and "I want you to read this letter." So I put aside the thing I was reading in which I was more interested and read most of the letter, not the latter part about having used another name. And then I thought it was too personal, "Dear Lisa," so I thought he was telling her, being rather braggadocio telling about his exploits which were rather imaginary and I put it out of my mind....

    he (and she) didn't think he actually went to Mexico City and visited the embassies. He had made it all up.

    Yes indeed...That Lee Oswald had extra ordinary mental abilities....He could get The secretary at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City to believe he was there raising hell about a visa , when he never was there....ROTFLMAO....

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #16 on: July 15, 2022, 02:55:45 AM »

    Online Walt Cakebread

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #17 on: July 15, 2022, 03:23:18 PM »
    Correct. She gave Hosty the letter AFTER the assassination. And she told Oswald about the meetings. That angered him and he went to FBI headquarters to confront Hosty.

    She and Michael testified that she showed him the letter and asked what they should do about it. He said it was nothing, that Oswald was bragging about his behavior, that he (and she) didn't think he actually went to Mexico City and visited the embassies. He had made it all up.

    So she not only withheld this from Hosty, she told Oswald about the meetings. That's a pretty bad informant if you ask me. Besides, wasn't she a CIA agent?

    From Michael Paine's testimony re the letter:

    Mr. PAINE - Ruth was quite bothered by that letter, and apparently had--apparently I hadn't really taken it in. I said, "The heck with it. Yes; it a fantastic lie, isn't that amazing that he will fabricate such stories here."
    Mr. LIEBELER - What did she say?
    Mr. PAINE - No; she said--she approached me and said, "I never realized how much he could lie" or that he was a liar or something like that, and "I want you to read this letter." So I put aside the thing I was reading in which I was more interested and read most of the letter, not the latter part about having used another name. And then I thought it was too personal, "Dear Lisa," so I thought he was telling her, being rather braggadocio telling about his exploits which were rather imaginary and I put it out of my mind....

    She gave Hosty the letter AFTER the assassination.

    That's not correct....Check again ..... See page 311 of the WR, and notice the date.....
    « Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 03:41:21 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #17 on: July 15, 2022, 03:23:18 PM »

    Online Charles Collins

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #18 on: July 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PM »
    She gave Hosty the letter AFTER the assassination.

    That's not correct....Check again ..... See page 311 of the WR, and notice the date.....


    If you are referring to the date of the typewritten letter (CE 15), November 9, 1963, that’s the date that it was written (typed). The date that the handwritten draft was given to Hosty was 11/23/63 (as Hosty wrote in his book “Assignment Oswald” page 57. Since the assassination happened on 11/22/63, she gave Hosty the handwritten draft after the assassination. There are 12-days between the two dates in which she might have turned the draft of the letter over to the FBI. But she didn’t until the day after the assassination.

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #18 on: July 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PM »

    Online Walt Cakebread

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    Re: CE 833
    « Reply #19 on: July 15, 2022, 09:06:56 PM »
    Comments welcome-----
     
    Oswald-CIA01b8" border="0

    Information that was withheld from the Warren Commission, the press, and the American people.
    You can bet your butt that the Soviets had it  :-\
    Of course...the lone gunman guys will claim it's a fake.


    Wow!....This is worth repeating.... Thanks, Jerry
    Oswald-CIA01b8" border="0

     

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